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I'd be fine with this if schools taught computer science like art. Essentially a place to build and make cool shit. Unfortunately, I could see it becoming more

I'd be fine with this if schools taught computer science like art. Essentially a place to build and make cool shit. Unfortunately, I could see it becoming more like how schools teach math, a bunch of rote steps that only a fraction of the class likes because they're good at it. Don't get me wrong, I like math, but most schools are unable to understand the creative, problem solving aspect of mathematics. I was fortunate enough to go to a high school that had an amazing computer science curriculum (8 semesters worth of classes). One really intelligent decision the department made was to not just mimic a college curriculum. After all, why teach something kids will learn a few years later? Instead, they mixed in some offbeat courses. They had a software development course that taught Python and basic web dev. They had a graphics course where you built a graphics engine. They even had an intro course with Racket. It's unlikely other schools will be able to replicate this exactly, but I like the concept of fun over "usefulness".

account2 8y ago
Sounds like you went to a good high school. Mine was a terrible high school that offered 0 computer science classes. >One really intelligent decision the department made was to not just mimic a college curriculum. It would have been GREAT if my high school even mimicked a college curriculum. We barely had any AP courses & I think it would haven't been a surprised if you didn't go onto college from my high school. You re definitely speaking from a place of immense privilege and it's amazing your school offered that.
applecrazy 8y ago
Sounds like an amazing high school computer science experience. Which state was this? My high school has exactly one CS course (AP Computer Science) that teaches more mathematics than computer science. This is something I would love if it existed at my school. I've been currently self-teaching CS for the portions that seem relevant and interesting, such as ML/DL, algorithms, and data structures.
- slededit 8y ago
  Pure CS is math (a form I find easier than other branches). You'll be much better if you learn the fundamentals.
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  Not the other guy, but I had at least one CS per semester starting in 6th grade at magnet programs in Montgomery County, MD. They were math, science, and CS magnet programs, and so we always took at least one of each each semester, with various additional electives available. My high school registered its domain name in 1990 (mbhs.edu) to give you an idea of how on top of the ball they were.
- _hardwaregeek 8y ago
  New York. It's not a hard school to guess. In fact, the teacher who started the entire program is on Reddit (maybe HN too). I'm extremely fortunate to have attended it.
  - asnyder 8y ago
    Brooklyn Tech most likely :). Mr. Turner?
    - _hardwaregeek 8y ago
      Haha you're very close. Not Tech though ;D
      - YuriNiyazov 8y ago
        Another one for the Z team?
rhacker 8y ago
8 semesters of CS in HS is serious business. I recall growing up and going to school 94-98 that we basically had a keyboard class, and some classes that taught Lotus 123 - which was kinda hilarious since I was using newer stuff at home. At the time at home I was also writing Basic, C programs - if I had a CS course it would helped bootstrap my learning a lot better. My dad kept saying at the time that there probably wouldn't be any programming jobs when I was older because AI was on its way to replace humans. And that was kinda wildly spread knowledge (remember this is basically quasi-pre-internet days). Every CS course I took in college was an easy A at that point. I didn't go beyond my BS because as many of us know, the industry was calling. And I already had 2 jobs (one self-owned web development company) and worked for another company. Zooming forward to today, I absolutely believe we won't have AI replacing humans yet - so absolutely think every HS should have a curriculum like yours if not even more aggressive. Then push a BS in CS to be more like an MS in CS. We really do need to make such advancements because, well, all other jobs are being eaten by software.
- yourapostasy 8y ago
  > At the time at home I was also writing Basic, C programs... Out of curiosity, how old were you then? And if you were advising a school on a progression, how young would you start teaching various topics? Like touch typing at age 5; sequences of commands, functions, conditionals and simple looping at age 6, used for solving puzzles in about 10-20 lines of code; expand for solving puzzles in about 20-30 lines of code at age 7, and so on.
  - rhacker 8y ago
    Got my first book on QBasic just before I was in middle school, but can't remember my age, but probably 11 or 12. I was getting into C when high school started. I wouldn't know what age to put kids through that - I don't have kids, but I know they are already exposed to computers much much earlier than I was. But 6,7,8 still feels slightly too young for me for that kind of comprehension. And just to edit: The only requirement to this stuff is focus and the curiosity to learn. So younger aged kids may very well be adept so long as home life, etc.. are stable in that regard.
root_axis 8y ago
I agree. If you inspire kids with a practical creative outlet they will be more inclined towards the more rigorous aspects of software design.
bytematic 8y ago
That sounds like an awesome curriculum! How recently did you graduate. It's been under 10 years ago for me and I didn't hear of any nearby schools offering any CS, I was always afraid of it until midway through college when I took a 100 level survey. Wish I had those opportunities earlier, probably would have saved a lot of money.
eitally 8y ago
Did you go to TJHSST?
linkmotif 8y ago
What school was this?
trynewideas 8y ago
> I'd be fine with this if schools taught computer science like art. Essentially a place to build and make cool shit. I worked with a non-profit that attempted to pitch exactly this to state governments, using game development as the framing. We ran summer programs to gather data while pursuing funding, and it was fantastic. Kids who had no interest in programming, logic, or physics bought into it in the context of building a level. Kids who wanted to code but had no interest in art, music, or writing bought into it in the context of creating a story. Funding for an in-school pilot passed the state legislature, but the governor line-item vetoed it. Good old Bobby Jindal.
iteriteratedone 8y ago
Its about a common baseline understanding. We know 99% of the populace wont need to understand inductive proofs. And if they did youd have 99% of construction workers knowing more math than necessary. If they want to they can study it but its just not really helpful. There is a law of deminishing returns and the free market dictates this. Eventually there is less demand. Not everyone can be a chef. Basically with js being embeded in everything its good for the general populace to know scripting 101. Not everyone will graduate to haskell or aspect oriented programming
lawlessone 8y ago
> I could see it becoming more like how schools teach math, a bunch of rote steps that only a fraction of the class likes I would worry more we're just creating students trained to work for Amazon.
- lochlan 8y ago
  What’s wrong with working at Amazon?

account2 8y ago

Sounds like you went to a good high school. Mine was a terrible high school that offered 0 computer science classes. >One really intelligent decision the department made was to not just mimic a college curriculum. It would have been GREAT if my high school even mimicked a college curriculum. We barely had any AP courses & I think it would haven't been a surprised if you didn't go onto college from my high school. You re definitely speaking from a place of immense privilege and it's amazing your school offered that.

applecrazy 8y ago

Sounds like an amazing high school computer science experience. Which state was this? My high school has exactly one CS course (AP Computer Science) that teaches more mathematics than computer science. This is something I would love if it existed at my school. I've been currently self-teaching CS for the portions that seem relevant and interesting, such as ML/DL, algorithms, and data structures.

slededit 8y ago
Pure CS is math (a form I find easier than other branches). You'll be much better if you learn the fundamentals.
CydeWeys 8y ago
Not the other guy, but I had at least one CS per semester starting in 6th grade at magnet programs in Montgomery County, MD. They were math, science, and CS magnet programs, and so we always took at least one of each each semester, with various additional electives available. My high school registered its domain name in 1990 (mbhs.edu) to give you an idea of how on top of the ball they were.
_hardwaregeek 8y ago
New York. It's not a hard school to guess. In fact, the teacher who started the entire program is on Reddit (maybe HN too). I'm extremely fortunate to have attended it.
- asnyder 8y ago
  Brooklyn Tech most likely :). Mr. Turner?
  - _hardwaregeek 8y ago
    Haha you're very close. Not Tech though ;D
    - YuriNiyazov 8y ago
      Another one for the Z team?

rhacker 8y ago

8 semesters of CS in HS is serious business. I recall growing up and going to school 94-98 that we basically had a keyboard class, and some classes that taught Lotus 123 - which was kinda hilarious since I was using newer stuff at home. At the time at home I was also writing Basic, C programs - if I had a CS course it would helped bootstrap my learning a lot better. My dad kept saying at the time that there probably wouldn't be any programming jobs when I was older because AI was on its way to replace humans. And that was kinda wildly spread knowledge (remember this is basically quasi-pre-internet days). Every CS course I took in college was an easy A at that point. I didn't go beyond my BS because as many of us know, the industry was calling. And I already had 2 jobs (one self-owned web development company) and worked for another company. Zooming forward to today, I absolutely believe we won't have AI replacing humans yet - so absolutely think every HS should have a curriculum like yours if not even more aggressive. Then push a BS in CS to be more like an MS in CS. We really do need to make such advancements because, well, all other jobs are being eaten by software.

yourapostasy 8y ago
> At the time at home I was also writing Basic, C programs... Out of curiosity, how old were you then? And if you were advising a school on a progression, how young would you start teaching various topics? Like touch typing at age 5; sequences of commands, functions, conditionals and simple looping at age 6, used for solving puzzles in about 10-20 lines of code; expand for solving puzzles in about 20-30 lines of code at age 7, and so on.
- rhacker 8y ago
  Got my first book on QBasic just before I was in middle school, but can't remember my age, but probably 11 or 12. I was getting into C when high school started. I wouldn't know what age to put kids through that - I don't have kids, but I know they are already exposed to computers much much earlier than I was. But 6,7,8 still feels slightly too young for me for that kind of comprehension. And just to edit: The only requirement to this stuff is focus and the curiosity to learn. So younger aged kids may very well be adept so long as home life, etc.. are stable in that regard.

root_axis 8y ago

I agree. If you inspire kids with a practical creative outlet they will be more inclined towards the more rigorous aspects of software design.

bytematic 8y ago

That sounds like an awesome curriculum! How recently did you graduate. It's been under 10 years ago for me and I didn't hear of any nearby schools offering any CS, I was always afraid of it until midway through college when I took a 100 level survey. Wish I had those opportunities earlier, probably would have saved a lot of money.

eitally 8y ago

Did you go to TJHSST?

linkmotif 8y ago

What school was this?

trynewideas 8y ago

> I'd be fine with this if schools taught computer science like art. Essentially a place to build and make cool shit. I worked with a non-profit that attempted to pitch exactly this to state governments, using game development as the framing. We ran summer programs to gather data while pursuing funding, and it was fantastic. Kids who had no interest in programming, logic, or physics bought into it in the context of building a level. Kids who wanted to code but had no interest in art, music, or writing bought into it in the context of creating a story. Funding for an in-school pilot passed the state legislature, but the governor line-item vetoed it. Good old Bobby Jindal.

iteriteratedone 8y ago

Its about a common baseline understanding. We know 99% of the populace wont need to understand inductive proofs. And if they did youd have 99% of construction workers knowing more math than necessary. If they want to they can study it but its just not really helpful. There is a law of deminishing returns and the free market dictates this. Eventually there is less demand. Not everyone can be a chef. Basically with js being embeded in everything its good for the general populace to know scripting 101. Not everyone will graduate to haskell or aspect oriented programming

lawlessone 8y ago

> I could see it becoming more like how schools teach math, a bunch of rote steps that only a fraction of the class likes I would worry more we're just creating students trained to work for Amazon.

lochlan 8y ago
What’s wrong with working at Amazon?