5 ms·

5Eyes includes nations other than the USA (4 of them), so the constitution need not apply.

r00fus 8y ago
I know the usage of other nations spy agencies has long been used to bypass US laws protecting it's citizenry from our own agencies. That doesn't make it right.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  I often see this claim made without any supporting evidence. The Five Eyes agreement explicitly forbids its members from spying on each other. It facilitates sharing of information gained from spying in countries outside of the group. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/an-exclusive-club-the-five-countries-that-dont-spy-on-each-other https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/an-exclusive-club-the-fiv...
  - amoshi 8y ago
    >forbids its members from spying on each other It isn't spying if they willingly exchange the information they have intercepted. Straight from the link you posted: Yet there have been reports in the British press — amplified most recently by former NSA contractor and leaker Edward Snowden — that that’s not the case, that the Five Eyes spy on one another’s citizens and share the information to get around laws preventing agencies from spying on their own citizens.
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      That would be a good story if Snowden provided any documents to back it up. He didn't. I trust the BRUSA documents over the word of a high school dropout who failed his analyst exam for misunderstanding the course materials and misdescribed PRISM for misunderstanding the documents he leaked.
  - jstanley 8y ago
    They're not spying on each other, they're spying on us.
  - snowwrestler 8y ago
    MUSCULAR, revealed by the Snowden leaks, is a program in which the UK's GCHQ broke into Google datacenters and exfiltrated information, which it handed over to the US's NSA. Because the NSA received the data from a foreign partner, they treated it as foreign data and did not scrub it for US citizen data. For those who remember, this is the program with the famous "smiley face" drawing of where Google decrypted data at their network edge.
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      > MUSCULAR, revealed by the Snowden leaks, is a program in which the UK's GCHQ broke into Google datacenters and exfiltrated information, which it handed over to the US's NSA. Because the NSA received the data from a foreign partner, they treated it as foreign data and did not scrub it for US citizen data. You misunderstood Snowden's documents. The UK tapped undersea cables entering their country. They did not break into Google's datacenters. According to Snowden's documents, the NSA is not allowed to collect and store US citizen data, no matter the source. There was at one time email metadata collection (from/to/when) from that source that was ended prior to Snowden's leaks according to his documents.
      - snowwrestler 8y ago
        > Intercepting communications overseas has clear advantages for the NSA, with looser restrictions and less oversight. NSA documents about the effort refer directly to “full take,” “bulk access” and “high volume” operations on Yahoo and Google networks. Such large-scale collection of Internet content would be illegal in the United States, but the operations take place overseas, where the NSA is allowed to presume that anyone using a foreign data link is a foreigner. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...
        lern_too_spel 8y ago
        That article's author is very confused. "Full take" is in reference to other interception programs in war zones. The documents about MUSCULAR itself show that it filtered to particular data types sent to international regions and filtered that data to just the information on selected individuals. The same source previously also provided email metadata collection on everybody, but that program ended in 2011. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-data-mining-authorised-obama https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-data-minin... Refer to the primary documents when you see articles like the one you posted with contradictory information like "full take" vs. "100,000 selectors" with a mere "millions of records every day."

I know the usage of other nations spy agencies has long been used to bypass US laws protecting it's citizenry from our own agencies. That doesn't make it right.

lern_too_spel 8y ago
I often see this claim made without any supporting evidence. The Five Eyes agreement explicitly forbids its members from spying on each other. It facilitates sharing of information gained from spying in countries outside of the group. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/an-exclusive-club-the-five-countries-that-dont-spy-on-each-other https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/an-exclusive-club-the-fiv...
- amoshi 8y ago
  >forbids its members from spying on each other It isn't spying if they willingly exchange the information they have intercepted. Straight from the link you posted: Yet there have been reports in the British press — amplified most recently by former NSA contractor and leaker Edward Snowden — that that’s not the case, that the Five Eyes spy on one another’s citizens and share the information to get around laws preventing agencies from spying on their own citizens.
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    That would be a good story if Snowden provided any documents to back it up. He didn't. I trust the BRUSA documents over the word of a high school dropout who failed his analyst exam for misunderstanding the course materials and misdescribed PRISM for misunderstanding the documents he leaked.
- jstanley 8y ago
  They're not spying on each other, they're spying on us.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  MUSCULAR, revealed by the Snowden leaks, is a program in which the UK's GCHQ broke into Google datacenters and exfiltrated information, which it handed over to the US's NSA. Because the NSA received the data from a foreign partner, they treated it as foreign data and did not scrub it for US citizen data. For those who remember, this is the program with the famous "smiley face" drawing of where Google decrypted data at their network edge.
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    > MUSCULAR, revealed by the Snowden leaks, is a program in which the UK's GCHQ broke into Google datacenters and exfiltrated information, which it handed over to the US's NSA. Because the NSA received the data from a foreign partner, they treated it as foreign data and did not scrub it for US citizen data. You misunderstood Snowden's documents. The UK tapped undersea cables entering their country. They did not break into Google's datacenters. According to Snowden's documents, the NSA is not allowed to collect and store US citizen data, no matter the source. There was at one time email metadata collection (from/to/when) from that source that was ended prior to Snowden's leaks according to his documents.
    - snowwrestler 8y ago
      > Intercepting communications overseas has clear advantages for the NSA, with looser restrictions and less oversight. NSA documents about the effort refer directly to “full take,” “bulk access” and “high volume” operations on Yahoo and Google networks. Such large-scale collection of Internet content would be illegal in the United States, but the operations take place overseas, where the NSA is allowed to presume that anyone using a foreign data link is a foreigner. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...
      - lern_too_spel 8y ago
        That article's author is very confused. "Full take" is in reference to other interception programs in war zones. The documents about MUSCULAR itself show that it filtered to particular data types sent to international regions and filtered that data to just the information on selected individuals. The same source previously also provided email metadata collection on everybody, but that program ended in 2011. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-data-mining-authorised-obama https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-data-minin... Refer to the primary documents when you see articles like the one you posted with contradictory information like "full take" vs. "100,000 selectors" with a mere "millions of records every day."