4 ms·

Windows Phone 7 developer resources – start building cool apps now

26 points by AlfredTwo 16y ago

xpaulbettsx 16y ago
Announcing obvious bias here, but IMO one of the best things about WP7 is how easy / good the tools are; making WP7 apps has way less of a learning curve than iOS, and once you get proficient with them, you can make entire apps in an afternoon, it's really easy to be productive and have great looking apps with animations and transitions.
- cryptoz 16y ago
  You're perhaps not the right person to ask all these questions, but maybe you'll be able to answer... Do you know how the application store will work? If I write a WP7 app, can a user download it from my website or do I have to be listed in the store? And if I have to be listed in the store, what restrictions are there on apps? I ask because the main thing preventing me from being interested in WP7 is the lack of a decent web browser (Wikipedia's WP7 article claims the browser is "halfway between IE7 and IE8"). So, is there any chance that someone could port Chrome or Opera to WP7? Or is there no way to get HTML5 on WP7 at all?
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    It pretty much has to be in the app store (of course some other methods, if you treat the phone as a dev phone, but clearly that's not scalable). The web browser is actually quite good for a mobile browser. It is true that its missing HTML5 capability, but that's coming over time. With that said, could you port over a browser? Not likely, you'd have to rewrite from scratch, as it has to be in managed code. I've never written a web-browser, but if it makes use of sockets (which I assume they do), you'll also be stuck, as this version doesn't have 3rd party support to access sockets. You'll probably need to wait until a future rev of the SDK, at which point IE9 will probably be just around the corner.
    - evo_9 16y ago
      This lack of standards compliance in regards to browsers/ms is getting extremely old. For that reason alone I'm not going to write apps for this phone and I'm a c# guy. It's time we stopped supporting things that break the web intentionally or otherwise.
      - icey 16y ago
        I can't agree with this more. It's really frustrating to write web apps that work on all the standards compliant browsers, and then have to make all sorts of hacky changes to them because Microsoft decides to do its own thing. We're a .net shop, but now we just recommend that our users use other browsers to get the best experience. It looks like that won't be changing when it comes to mobile access either.
  - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
    It's similar to Apple's model, but the restrictions are much more clear-cut and reasonable (no hate speech, app should do what it says it does, etc). As to the Chrome/Opera port, afaik it's possible but it would be pretty tricky.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > is there any chance that someone could port Chrome or Opera to WP7? Unlikely. It would imply a full rewrite - WinMo 7 runs only managed code.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > the best things about WP7 is how easy / good the tools are Sadly, they won't run on any OS I use.
  - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
    Actually, MonoDevelop runs on your OS (and supports Silverlight), so you could do a majority of the code work on OS X / Linux, then only have to use Windows OS for the last 15% or so. WP7 is just Silverlight with phone-specific libraries on it (like accessing contacts, accelerometer, etc)
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      I didn't say they can't. I just say they won't. Ever ;-)
      - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
        Then why post at all? I mean, criticism with reasonable justifications is one thing, but "Not on My Machine!" doesn't move the conversation forward in any direction at all.
  - icey 16y ago
    I think it's fair to say that any time Windows, Microsoft, or .Net are mentioned here, your unwillingness to consider them is pretty well implied.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      Call me consistent. There is a deeper reason to that: I like diversity. Windows is about an x86, IBM-PC-based world. Now, with WP7, they, again, try to standardize hardware in order to commoditize it for their software. That's not healthy in the long run. Consider our PCs compared to their GPUs. PCs are a very standardized platform, with little variation allowed between different models. The average PC of 2010 is only a couple times faster than the average PC of 2005. Now, compare the average GPU of 2005 to the average GPU of 2010. The reason it happens is because GPUs are a widely diverse bunch. A couple years back, we were building number crunchers (we still are) out of x86s. Now, we build them out of GPUs. The day a GPU standard emerges is the day evolution will be tamed to a much more "market friendly" pace. We all lose.
- macrael 16y ago
  What makes you say they have a smaller learning curve than iOS? Is that assuming previous knowledge of Microsoft development tools? Or do you think that someone who only has experience with say C or Ruby would have an easier time of picking up Windows Phone dev tools over Xcode/Cocoa?
  - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
    For the average developer, I think that C# is more similar to modern languages like Python or C++ than Obj-C, and there's less boilerplate syntax that you have to write. For example, things like making lists with custom tiles are really straightforward and quick (just draw out the template visually for each type of item and use bindings to bind to properties of the object). You can get away with writing a lot less code, except for the actual details of your app.
    - woadwarrior01 16y ago
      I haven't coded in C# in over 4 years now, but interestingly, I found Objective-C to be way more pythonic than C#. It feels pretty much like python with static typing bolted on.
      - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
        I agree actually, I kind of look at Obj-C as "Native Ruby"; it's a good language for sure, but I think it's faster and easier to write C#, especially with C# 3.5/4.0 (where I can think in a functional programming paradigm with map/reduce/filter/etc)
Caligula 16y ago
What is a good developer win7 phone to test with?
- kenjackson 16y ago
  I'd get one with a keyboard, like the Dell Venue Pro, so you can test both with and w/o the physical keyboard. Besides that, they all have to have min specs, so it shouldn't matter too much which phone you get.

26 points by AlfredTwo 16y ago

Announcing obvious bias here, but IMO one of the best things about WP7 is how easy / good the tools are; making WP7 apps has way less of a learning curve than iOS, and once you get proficient with them, you can make entire apps in an afternoon, it's really easy to be productive and have great looking apps with animations and transitions.

cryptoz 16y ago
You're perhaps not the right person to ask all these questions, but maybe you'll be able to answer... Do you know how the application store will work? If I write a WP7 app, can a user download it from my website or do I have to be listed in the store? And if I have to be listed in the store, what restrictions are there on apps? I ask because the main thing preventing me from being interested in WP7 is the lack of a decent web browser (Wikipedia's WP7 article claims the browser is "halfway between IE7 and IE8"). So, is there any chance that someone could port Chrome or Opera to WP7? Or is there no way to get HTML5 on WP7 at all?
- kenjackson 16y ago
  It pretty much has to be in the app store (of course some other methods, if you treat the phone as a dev phone, but clearly that's not scalable). The web browser is actually quite good for a mobile browser. It is true that its missing HTML5 capability, but that's coming over time. With that said, could you port over a browser? Not likely, you'd have to rewrite from scratch, as it has to be in managed code. I've never written a web-browser, but if it makes use of sockets (which I assume they do), you'll also be stuck, as this version doesn't have 3rd party support to access sockets. You'll probably need to wait until a future rev of the SDK, at which point IE9 will probably be just around the corner.
  - evo_9 16y ago
    This lack of standards compliance in regards to browsers/ms is getting extremely old. For that reason alone I'm not going to write apps for this phone and I'm a c# guy. It's time we stopped supporting things that break the web intentionally or otherwise.
    - icey 16y ago
      I can't agree with this more. It's really frustrating to write web apps that work on all the standards compliant browsers, and then have to make all sorts of hacky changes to them because Microsoft decides to do its own thing. We're a .net shop, but now we just recommend that our users use other browsers to get the best experience. It looks like that won't be changing when it comes to mobile access either.
- xpaulbettsx 16y ago
  It's similar to Apple's model, but the restrictions are much more clear-cut and reasonable (no hate speech, app should do what it says it does, etc). As to the Chrome/Opera port, afaik it's possible but it would be pretty tricky.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > is there any chance that someone could port Chrome or Opera to WP7? Unlikely. It would imply a full rewrite - WinMo 7 runs only managed code.
rbanffy 16y ago
> the best things about WP7 is how easy / good the tools are Sadly, they won't run on any OS I use.
- xpaulbettsx 16y ago
  Actually, MonoDevelop runs on your OS (and supports Silverlight), so you could do a majority of the code work on OS X / Linux, then only have to use Windows OS for the last 15% or so. WP7 is just Silverlight with phone-specific libraries on it (like accessing contacts, accelerometer, etc)
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    I didn't say they can't. I just say they won't. Ever ;-)
    - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
      Then why post at all? I mean, criticism with reasonable justifications is one thing, but "Not on My Machine!" doesn't move the conversation forward in any direction at all.
- icey 16y ago
  I think it's fair to say that any time Windows, Microsoft, or .Net are mentioned here, your unwillingness to consider them is pretty well implied.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Call me consistent. There is a deeper reason to that: I like diversity. Windows is about an x86, IBM-PC-based world. Now, with WP7, they, again, try to standardize hardware in order to commoditize it for their software. That's not healthy in the long run. Consider our PCs compared to their GPUs. PCs are a very standardized platform, with little variation allowed between different models. The average PC of 2010 is only a couple times faster than the average PC of 2005. Now, compare the average GPU of 2005 to the average GPU of 2010. The reason it happens is because GPUs are a widely diverse bunch. A couple years back, we were building number crunchers (we still are) out of x86s. Now, we build them out of GPUs. The day a GPU standard emerges is the day evolution will be tamed to a much more "market friendly" pace. We all lose.
macrael 16y ago
What makes you say they have a smaller learning curve than iOS? Is that assuming previous knowledge of Microsoft development tools? Or do you think that someone who only has experience with say C or Ruby would have an easier time of picking up Windows Phone dev tools over Xcode/Cocoa?
- xpaulbettsx 16y ago
  For the average developer, I think that C# is more similar to modern languages like Python or C++ than Obj-C, and there's less boilerplate syntax that you have to write. For example, things like making lists with custom tiles are really straightforward and quick (just draw out the template visually for each type of item and use bindings to bind to properties of the object). You can get away with writing a lot less code, except for the actual details of your app.
  - woadwarrior01 16y ago
    I haven't coded in C# in over 4 years now, but interestingly, I found Objective-C to be way more pythonic than C#. It feels pretty much like python with static typing bolted on.
    - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
      I agree actually, I kind of look at Obj-C as "Native Ruby"; it's a good language for sure, but I think it's faster and easier to write C#, especially with C# 3.5/4.0 (where I can think in a functional programming paradigm with map/reduce/filter/etc)

Caligula 16y ago

What is a good developer win7 phone to test with?

kenjackson 16y ago
I'd get one with a keyboard, like the Dell Venue Pro, so you can test both with and w/o the physical keyboard. Besides that, they all have to have min specs, so it shouldn't matter too much which phone you get.