5 ms·

Imagine being a Twitch streamer whose livelihood is streaming to the website, and out of the blue, your ISP just starts throttling you. What a nightmare; I've

by kmfrk 8y ago

Imagine being a Twitch streamer whose livelihood is streaming to the website, and out of the blue, your ISP just starts throttling you. What a nightmare; I've already seen streamers who had to consider moving because of continuous internet issues.

tantalor 8y ago
Then upgrade your residential internet service to a business plan, & deduct from taxes as business expense.
- vuln 8y ago
  Thank you!!! It drives me insane that residential customers expect business grade service, service support, and uptime. Yet they want to pay a fraction of the price.
  - guelo 8y ago
    Then the ISPs will start requiring *Enterprise Premium", then they'll make you get "Enterprise Premium with Streaming package", then you'll have to get "Xfinity Triple Play Enterprise Premium with the Extended Streaming Bundle, up to 500 Subscribers Package". It's all bullshit for then to keep charging you more. Thanks Net Neutrality.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      Perhaps you meant, "thanks government-enforced monopoly"?
      - Spivak 8y ago
        I think more realistically I think you mean, "thanks natural market effect where even among competing entities there's strong pressure to charge very close to customer's willingness to pay since undercutting your competition risks a race to the bottom where all competitors suffer."
        jessaustin 8y ago
        Why aren't other markets like that? Lots of firms in lots of industries have single-digit margins over COGS. They're at "the bottom" all the time. In some industries, defectors from the commercial collusion you describe are punished through non-market means. In telecom, FCC prevents them from existing in the first place.
    - Spivak 8y ago
      This has less to do with NN and more with that a business has a ridiculous amount of leverage over you. Once your ISP figured out that you were a streamer they could just up your price to $500/mo because they can. Or more realistically they could just slip a line in their ToS saying that professional streaming requires a business plan which is $500/mo. NN wouldn't have solved any of this.
- jakelarkin 8y ago
  lol. do you really think "Comcast Business" magically upgrades the lines or gateway hardware that serves your home? its just $200/month for slightly better reps, who still can't do jack about how the network drops your traffic.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    Yes, unless they're installing a direct fiber line, which usually costs at least $1,000 a month with a 5 year contract plus possible installation costs for 100mb+ up/down, you're just getting the same crap everyone else is. And you have to dig around to find the right person to talk to, they don't even advertise it unless you're a decent size business.
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      Looks pretty un-hidden to me: https://business.comcast.com/ethernet/metro-ethernet https://business.comcast.com/ethernet/metro-ethernet
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        Guess they updated their website! When I was looking, it just said some business internet website and you called and got transferred from person to person. And they never responded to submissions to the online form.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    I do get different hardware at home. And when my modem dies at 2.30am on a Saturday night, as it has, I've had someone show up at 7am Sunday morning with the replacement. I also get static IP addresses, inbound ports, and no throttling, BT or otherwise.
Spivak 8y ago
I mean this is pretty much business risk analysis. Other things that would shut down most streamers: - Their ISP simply refusing to do business with them. - Twitch banning them. - YouTube banning them. - PayPal banning them. - Their ISP changing their terms of service to classify professional streaming as business activity and not allowed on their network without a business plan. - Their city deciding that since your building is zoned for residential only that they have to stream somewhere else. - The publishers of the games they play submitting DMCA takedowns on their content. This in no way justifies malicious actions by ISPs but the argument "you can't throttle people's internet, their livelihoods might depend on it" would in practice be met by "well those people shouldn't try to run a business on a consumer internet plan without accepting the risks."

by kmfrk 8y ago

tantalor 8y ago

Then upgrade your residential internet service to a business plan, & deduct from taxes as business expense.

vuln 8y ago
Thank you!!! It drives me insane that residential customers expect business grade service, service support, and uptime. Yet they want to pay a fraction of the price.
- guelo 8y ago
  Then the ISPs will start requiring *Enterprise Premium", then they'll make you get "Enterprise Premium with Streaming package", then you'll have to get "Xfinity Triple Play Enterprise Premium with the Extended Streaming Bundle, up to 500 Subscribers Package". It's all bullshit for then to keep charging you more. Thanks Net Neutrality.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Perhaps you meant, "thanks government-enforced monopoly"?
    - Spivak 8y ago
      I think more realistically I think you mean, "thanks natural market effect where even among competing entities there's strong pressure to charge very close to customer's willingness to pay since undercutting your competition risks a race to the bottom where all competitors suffer."
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        Why aren't other markets like that? Lots of firms in lots of industries have single-digit margins over COGS. They're at "the bottom" all the time. In some industries, defectors from the commercial collusion you describe are punished through non-market means. In telecom, FCC prevents them from existing in the first place.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    This has less to do with NN and more with that a business has a ridiculous amount of leverage over you. Once your ISP figured out that you were a streamer they could just up your price to $500/mo because they can. Or more realistically they could just slip a line in their ToS saying that professional streaming requires a business plan which is $500/mo. NN wouldn't have solved any of this.
jakelarkin 8y ago
lol. do you really think "Comcast Business" magically upgrades the lines or gateway hardware that serves your home? its just $200/month for slightly better reps, who still can't do jack about how the network drops your traffic.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Yes, unless they're installing a direct fiber line, which usually costs at least $1,000 a month with a 5 year contract plus possible installation costs for 100mb+ up/down, you're just getting the same crap everyone else is. And you have to dig around to find the right person to talk to, they don't even advertise it unless you're a decent size business.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    Looks pretty un-hidden to me: https://business.comcast.com/ethernet/metro-ethernet https://business.comcast.com/ethernet/metro-ethernet
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      Guess they updated their website! When I was looking, it just said some business internet website and you called and got transferred from person to person. And they never responded to submissions to the online form.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  I do get different hardware at home. And when my modem dies at 2.30am on a Saturday night, as it has, I've had someone show up at 7am Sunday morning with the replacement. I also get static IP addresses, inbound ports, and no throttling, BT or otherwise.

Spivak 8y ago

I mean this is pretty much business risk analysis. Other things that would shut down most streamers: - Their ISP simply refusing to do business with them. - Twitch banning them. - YouTube banning them. - PayPal banning them. - Their ISP changing their terms of service to classify professional streaming as business activity and not allowed on their network without a business plan. - Their city deciding that since your building is zoned for residential only that they have to stream somewhere else. - The publishers of the games they play submitting DMCA takedowns on their content. This in no way justifies malicious actions by ISPs but the argument "you can't throttle people's internet, their livelihoods might depend on it" would in practice be met by "well those people shouldn't try to run a business on a consumer internet plan without accepting the risks."