3 ms·

Arresting them, charging them with a crime, and putting them in jail... for sleeping in the only place they can. That is cruel punishment because the "crime" is

Arresting them, charging them with a crime, and putting them in jail... for sleeping in the only place they can. That is cruel punishment because the "crime" is unavoidable.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
It also wouldn't have been a crime at one time. There used to be wilderness and people just existed. Now, all the land is owned by someone. If you aren't one of the haves, it gets increasingly challenging to find someplace where it is legal for you to even exist.
- coryrc 8y ago
  BLM land is free for camping and in large quantities in the West.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    If you are indigent, there are no soup kitchens on BLM land. I spent nearly 6 years homeless. I spent a lot of time looking for free, legal camp grounds with access to internet and access to places to buy food, etc. I never found a single one. If you can afford to camp for fun as a middle class activity, that works. If you are indigent and trying to figure out how to earn an income, resolve your problems and get your life back, BLM land does you no good. I wished I could have made that work. But I had no car.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    In WA State, most Federal Parks charge a $5 fee just to enter the park. Camping overnight is usually $11-15, with a 2-week limit, specifically to prevent people from living there. Even without that limit, that's still $330-450 a month in rent. That can rent a room in a college house (with 6 other people) in Seattle, and maybe a whole apartment in the rural areas where Federal Parks are located. (Reminder to self: Bureau of Land Management isn't Black Lives Matter)
malvosenior 8y ago
The punishment for breaking this law is the same as breaking any other law. You can have a problem with the law but the punishment isn't cruel or unusual.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- travmatt 8y ago
  Coincidentally enough, a judge actually recently passed a ruling that says the opposite.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- chris_wot 8y ago
  I’m curious, if they can’t go to a shelter, and they have no home, where precisely should they even exist?
gamblor956 8y ago
What's cruel about a warm, clean bed with 3 meals a day and clean clothes? The fine is far crueler than the time, since the fine robs them of money to spend on food.
- astrodust 8y ago
  They don't pay fines, come on. What is the government going to do? Garnishee their wages? Ruin their credit score? Prevent them from taking out a huge mortgage? It's absurd that the police spend so much time and money "fining" people for things that they're just going to do again anyway. The solution involves not fining people, but instead having a system that can help treat the problems they have, not just throw them in jail over and over.
- skywhopper 8y ago
  An arrest means it's that much harder to get a job in the future. It means they have court fees and whatever else the local town tacks on to pay. Jail time means they can't look for work (or might lose whatever job they do have) or socialize, or get treatment. Getting arrested means being hassled and possibly assaulted by police who are empowered to use deadly force.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    /s/An arrest/A conviction Arrests don’t show up on background checks. Only convictions and pending charges do.
    - eesmith 8y ago
      https://work.chron.com/can-still-job-got-arrested-but-not-convicted-21382.html https://work.chron.com/can-still-job-got-arrested-but-not-co... - "People with arrest records, even if they weren't convicted or charged with a crime, sometimes face job search difficulties." Also, "Many third-party background checks do include criminal record information, including arrests that took place during the past seven years. If someone applies for a job with an annual salary of $75,000 or more, the seven-year limit is lifted and arrest records many time may appear on the background check." And, "If you are planning on a career that requires you to obtain a professional license, you may have to disclose your arrest record as part of the application process. Whether the arrest affects your ability to receive a license depends on state law and the licensing board's policies."

Arresting them, charging them with a crime, and putting them in jail... for sleeping in the only place they can. That is cruel punishment because the "crime" is unavoidable.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

It also wouldn't have been a crime at one time. There used to be wilderness and people just existed. Now, all the land is owned by someone. If you aren't one of the haves, it gets increasingly challenging to find someplace where it is legal for you to even exist.

coryrc 8y ago
BLM land is free for camping and in large quantities in the West.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  If you are indigent, there are no soup kitchens on BLM land. I spent nearly 6 years homeless. I spent a lot of time looking for free, legal camp grounds with access to internet and access to places to buy food, etc. I never found a single one. If you can afford to camp for fun as a middle class activity, that works. If you are indigent and trying to figure out how to earn an income, resolve your problems and get your life back, BLM land does you no good. I wished I could have made that work. But I had no car.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  In WA State, most Federal Parks charge a $5 fee just to enter the park. Camping overnight is usually $11-15, with a 2-week limit, specifically to prevent people from living there. Even without that limit, that's still $330-450 a month in rent. That can rent a room in a college house (with 6 other people) in Seattle, and maybe a whole apartment in the rural areas where Federal Parks are located. (Reminder to self: Bureau of Land Management isn't Black Lives Matter)

malvosenior 8y ago

The punishment for breaking this law is the same as breaking any other law. You can have a problem with the law but the punishment isn't cruel or unusual.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
travmatt 8y ago
Coincidentally enough, a judge actually recently passed a ruling that says the opposite.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
chris_wot 8y ago
I’m curious, if they can’t go to a shelter, and they have no home, where precisely should they even exist?

gamblor956 8y ago

What's cruel about a warm, clean bed with 3 meals a day and clean clothes? The fine is far crueler than the time, since the fine robs them of money to spend on food.

astrodust 8y ago
They don't pay fines, come on. What is the government going to do? Garnishee their wages? Ruin their credit score? Prevent them from taking out a huge mortgage? It's absurd that the police spend so much time and money "fining" people for things that they're just going to do again anyway. The solution involves not fining people, but instead having a system that can help treat the problems they have, not just throw them in jail over and over.
skywhopper 8y ago
An arrest means it's that much harder to get a job in the future. It means they have court fees and whatever else the local town tacks on to pay. Jail time means they can't look for work (or might lose whatever job they do have) or socialize, or get treatment. Getting arrested means being hassled and possibly assaulted by police who are empowered to use deadly force.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  /s/An arrest/A conviction Arrests don’t show up on background checks. Only convictions and pending charges do.
  - eesmith 8y ago
    https://work.chron.com/can-still-job-got-arrested-but-not-convicted-21382.html https://work.chron.com/can-still-job-got-arrested-but-not-co... - "People with arrest records, even if they weren't convicted or charged with a crime, sometimes face job search difficulties." Also, "Many third-party background checks do include criminal record information, including arrests that took place during the past seven years. If someone applies for a job with an annual salary of $75,000 or more, the seven-year limit is lifted and arrest records many time may appear on the background check." And, "If you are planning on a career that requires you to obtain a professional license, you may have to disclose your arrest record as part of the application process. Whether the arrest affects your ability to receive a license depends on state law and the licensing board's policies."