4 ms·

I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic.

by as1mov 8y ago

I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic. The reason for the somewhat balanced gender ratio here is much more mundane than what these articles would make you believe. In India, engineering is one of the "default" career paths for most poor/middle class families children for leading a stable life. It's pretty depressing honestly, children spend the first 20-22 years of their life being a book-worm and they get to choose from a set of "acceptable" careers (Engineering, Medicine, Business). Any unorthodox career paths are out of question unless you are the rebellious kind. What effect does this have on the workforce? You get people (both men and women) who are barely interested in what they do. Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. It's not that women here enter the CS industry in greater numbers because of their own interest in the field, it's just that nobody gives a shit about it so the ratio is equal. This is the case with the service based companies which comprise a huge portion of the workforce. The number of women in startups (which people join on their own volition) is comparable to the US counterparts. The current company where I work, out of ~60 engineers, 4 are women. In US/Europe, you have greater freedom and choice when you consider your career, which you generally choose based on your own interests. IMO, inculcating tech/computers as a hobby at a young age in girls and dispelling the fact that it's only for "nerds" will do a lot more to equal the numbers than any affirmative action hiring ever will.

et-al 8y ago
> Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. How is this not the case for software devs in the States? There's plenty of people who joined dev bootcamps because of the possibility of a six-figure salary. Considering how financially-driven many developers in the Bay Area are, I think their interests aren't too different from our Indian compatriots. We're all looking for a way to pay rent, hopefully buy a house, and pursue interests outside of work.
windows_tips 8y ago
Is it possible to earn enough in an acceptable career to then later pursue what one would like to?
- bluGill 8y ago
  Is it possible to earn enough in the unacceptable careers? Engineering, medicine, business covers most choices that pay well, and there is demand. Business in particular is a catch-all which will let you get into any industry that pays well. Of course there are niches outside of them that need a few smart educated people, but they are niches that can only take support a few people and get saturated easily. We have "starving artist" as an expression in English for a reason: there are a lot of great artists that will never really earn enough for more than the cheapest food and shelter with nothing else left over. (there is nothing wrong with such a lifestyle if you are not in my family - if you are in my family we want better for you, and in particular the grandchildren which your life will not support)
- as1mov 8y ago
  ...not really. It's pretty hard to jump to a completely different career when you are 30-35, I'd presume it's the same in US too. Though people here are quick to jump to a managerial position since it's less stressful and the pay is more.
maxxxxx 8y ago
" Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. " That would explain the attitude of a lot of workers at the big offshoring companies.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
> it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves Is there something wrong with that? The idea that you need to super passionate for your job and practically live and breath it seems to be a fairly common attitude around HN and the tech community in general. For me software engineering is just a job. I enjoy my work, sure, but I wouldn't do it if I wasn't getting paid. Most people in the world have a similar attitude to their work. I don't think the secretary in my office goes home and makes spreadsheets and types word documents. My friend who's a plumber doesn't go home and stick pipes together for fun. I think that the difference is that in the West, we have more options for careers that offer a comfortable life. Trades pay well in the West, my tradie mates here in Australia make as much as I do, or even more. This isn't the case in the developing world, where there is a stark difference between white collar and blue collar wages.
- backpropaganda 8y ago
  I think parent worded it in a way that's causing confusion. The point is that in India, tech is one of the only few ways to earn a decent salary. The average American has many more ways to earn a decent salary and thus the choice to go into tech has more to do with whether they had some interest (not passion) in tech or not for whatever reasons. Money alone is not an overwhelming factor because you can get equally well-paid elsewhere. In India, that is not the case. You can ONLY get paid well (assuming you're an average person) if you go into tech.
sseth 8y ago
I too work in the software industry in India (and have been working since the last 30 years). And i have worked for several years outside india as well. My Indian colleagues through the years (male and female) have been no different in their commitment compared to colleagues i have worked with in Europe, US, Australia for several years. And I should add that at least the companies i have worked in "give a shit" about women in the workforce. I don't know whether we have more women that the US - but we definitely have much fewer than there should be - so there is no need for being self-congratulatory. My company (with about 1000+ people) has several policies in place to hire more women and make it easier for them to resume after a break. And i think we are far from unique.
throwaway_12323 8y ago
Quite honestly, considering that most other jobs require bullshitting expertly (Humanities, Journalism)... I'm glad, Indian parents want their chidlren to do something useful with their lives.

by as1mov 8y ago

et-al 8y ago

> Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. How is this not the case for software devs in the States? There's plenty of people who joined dev bootcamps because of the possibility of a six-figure salary. Considering how financially-driven many developers in the Bay Area are, I think their interests aren't too different from our Indian compatriots. We're all looking for a way to pay rent, hopefully buy a house, and pursue interests outside of work.

windows_tips 8y ago

Is it possible to earn enough in an acceptable career to then later pursue what one would like to?

bluGill 8y ago
Is it possible to earn enough in the unacceptable careers? Engineering, medicine, business covers most choices that pay well, and there is demand. Business in particular is a catch-all which will let you get into any industry that pays well. Of course there are niches outside of them that need a few smart educated people, but they are niches that can only take support a few people and get saturated easily. We have "starving artist" as an expression in English for a reason: there are a lot of great artists that will never really earn enough for more than the cheapest food and shelter with nothing else left over. (there is nothing wrong with such a lifestyle if you are not in my family - if you are in my family we want better for you, and in particular the grandchildren which your life will not support)
as1mov 8y ago
...not really. It's pretty hard to jump to a completely different career when you are 30-35, I'd presume it's the same in US too. Though people here are quick to jump to a managerial position since it's less stressful and the pay is more.

maxxxxx 8y ago

" Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. " That would explain the attitude of a lot of workers at the big offshoring companies.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

> it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves Is there something wrong with that? The idea that you need to super passionate for your job and practically live and breath it seems to be a fairly common attitude around HN and the tech community in general. For me software engineering is just a job. I enjoy my work, sure, but I wouldn't do it if I wasn't getting paid. Most people in the world have a similar attitude to their work. I don't think the secretary in my office goes home and makes spreadsheets and types word documents. My friend who's a plumber doesn't go home and stick pipes together for fun. I think that the difference is that in the West, we have more options for careers that offer a comfortable life. Trades pay well in the West, my tradie mates here in Australia make as much as I do, or even more. This isn't the case in the developing world, where there is a stark difference between white collar and blue collar wages.

backpropaganda 8y ago
I think parent worded it in a way that's causing confusion. The point is that in India, tech is one of the only few ways to earn a decent salary. The average American has many more ways to earn a decent salary and thus the choice to go into tech has more to do with whether they had some interest (not passion) in tech or not for whatever reasons. Money alone is not an overwhelming factor because you can get equally well-paid elsewhere. In India, that is not the case. You can ONLY get paid well (assuming you're an average person) if you go into tech.

sseth 8y ago

I too work in the software industry in India (and have been working since the last 30 years). And i have worked for several years outside india as well. My Indian colleagues through the years (male and female) have been no different in their commitment compared to colleagues i have worked with in Europe, US, Australia for several years. And I should add that at least the companies i have worked in "give a shit" about women in the workforce. I don't know whether we have more women that the US - but we definitely have much fewer than there should be - so there is no need for being self-congratulatory. My company (with about 1000+ people) has several policies in place to hire more women and make it easier for them to resume after a break. And i think we are far from unique.

throwaway_12323 8y ago

Quite honestly, considering that most other jobs require bullshitting expertly (Humanities, Journalism)... I'm glad, Indian parents want their chidlren to do something useful with their lives.