6 ms·

> And this drives insurance costs through the roof One bit of anecdata: full coverage on my 2017 Model S 100D (all options except performance) is only slightly

> And this drives insurance costs through the roof One bit of anecdata: full coverage on my 2017 Model S 100D (all options except performance) is only slightly higher than full coverage on the car it replaced: a 2014 Prius C with no options. I was bracing for the worst, Re: insurance, but (I'm with Geico) the rate is...in my mind at least, very low. Perhaps they're factoring in all of the built-in safety features?

mark212 8y ago
from what I remember, most of the cost of car insurance (at least here in the US) is the driver, not the car. Young unmarried men pay the highest premiums because they're the drivers most likely to cause and get into accidents. The cost of repairs and even the value of the car isn't really much of a driver of insurance rates.
- ams6110 8y ago
  It's both the car, and the driver, and the driver's past claims history. An exotic car is going to cost more to insure regardless of who's driving it. Even more so if the driver is young, male, unmarried, or has a record of accidents or violations. When I added my 16 year old to my insurance, there was quite a difference in cost, depending on which car we said was his primary car.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    How'd you figure that out?
hcknwscommenter 8y ago
I would guess, that they simply do not have enough information to come up with a reasonable estimate of their cost of insurance, so they err on the side of making it affordable because it is such a low volume car that is often (but assuredly not always) a second car that gets less use. I further predict that insurance costs are going to rise dramatically in the next few years. All the anecdata (I know I know) I have seen suggest Teslas are comparatively expensive to service for minor bodywork and other repairs.
- toast0 8y ago
  > because it is such a low volume car that is often (but assuredly not always) a second car that gets less use. I always have to provide a mileage estimate to get an insurance quote -- and if I don't go to enough places that sell my mileage info, I have to send in a mileage declaration about once a year; so use shouldn't have anything to do with it.
  - hcknwscommenter 8y ago
    Your anecdote supports my point and undermines your own. Use has everything to do with it. That is why your insurance company wants that mileage information. I change my own oil and easily go years between visits to the mechanic, so there is no way my mileage info is leaking. There are only two times I have had to report mileage: 1. when I had a special discount from liberty mutual for driving less than 500 miles a year; and 2. now because I switched to metromile. In both cases (again) use has everything to do with it.
Phlarp 8y ago
Or you're just ahead of the nightmare service scenario described above and the actuaries don't know how to price it in yet. If so; Model S owners may get assessed in line with a similar price point internal combustion luxury sedan.
- Diederich 8y ago
  Perhaps. Since their introduction over 6 years ago, well over 200,000 Model S' have been sold, and Geico has insured quite a few of them. > actuaries don't know how to price it in yet This is pretty far from my field of expertise, so I can't make any kind of directed comment. I'll just say that it strikes me as unlikely that Geico either doesn't have enough data yet and/or doesn't know what it's doing. I don't know much about
  - Phlarp 8y ago
    What percentage of that 200,000 is in California? I don't think the sample size is near large enough, nor properly distributed to build a comprehensive risk model around. I'm not a subject matter expert either but I would love to hear from someone in the industry.
  - close04 8y ago
    It doesn't matter how many were sold but how easy/cheap is to fix them when insurance is needed. For Tesla parts are rare and expensive, authorized service partners are rare and expensive, so fixing the car costs a lot.
- cc439 8y ago
  Car insurance doesn't cover repairs, it's actually insurance, not an all inclusive payment plan like health "insurance".
  - hcknwscommenter 8y ago
    Perhaps you and I use different terminology? Parent comment refers to "full coverage", which I believe includes the costs of repairs no matter whose fault it is.
beenBoutIT 8y ago
Any idea how life insurance companies are dealing with Tesla owners and their autopilot induced fatalities? The number of autopilot -related deaths and crashes seems high considering how few Teslas are on the road.
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  > The number of autopilot -related deaths and crashes seems high considering how few Teslas are on the road. That’s just an artifact of increased media coverage.
  - beenBoutIT 8y ago
    Tesla has only sold roughly 200k Teslas* as of July. *https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-sold-200000-cars-in-the-us-so-the-7500-tax-credit-is-going-away/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-sold-200000-cars-...
    - Diederich 8y ago
      200k US sales as of July, that's correct. They're current production rate is about 107k/year, slightly more than 1% of General Motors 10M/year.
- beat 8y ago
  You're committing a couple of different fallacies there, which let sensationalist media (itself full of fallacies) influence your thinking. First, Teslas aren't exactly rare. Upthread, someone said 200,000 have been sold (have not fact-checked, but it seems plausible). Second, autopilot related fatalities are covered breathlessly in the media, ignoring all of the other, far more common sources of fatalities, such as drunk driving. And finally, there is no media coverage of the number of accidents prevented by autopilot, which I suspect is pretty high.
  - beenBoutIT 8y ago
    Tesla has maybe sold 200,000 cars world-wide over the course of 15 years, by its own estimate. GM sold close to 4 times that many vehicles in the US alone in Q2 of 2018. Teslas are rare. https://www.gm.com/investors/sales/us-sales-production.html https://www.gm.com/investors/sales/us-sales-production.html
Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
I'll piggyback this to add my own anecdata. I pay about $95/month for Progressive insurance on my $28,000 Subaru BRZ. I got a quote on a $135,000 Tesla Model S P100D, and for the same coverage (Full coverage + Liability with moderate deductibles), it was $140/month.
- sixothree 8y ago
  This tells me I am in the wrong insurance market. You don't even want to know what I pay for my 2006 car....
  - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
    Have you shopped around recently for insurance? I bought this BRZ about 2 1/2 years ago. At the time, I was paying $90/month for an old 2000 Suzuki Esteem for only liability and uninsured motorist with Nationwide insurance. They quoted me $180 to insure my BRZ for full coverage. I decided to shop around and switched to Progressive after they quoted me the $95 for the BRZ with better coverage and lower deductibles.
    - bri3d 8y ago
      Keep in mind that insurance costs vary extremely widely state to state (i.e., market to market, to the parent poster's point). Different states have different risk profiles but more importantly, widely different insurance regulations.
      - close04 8y ago
        Insurance is based on statistical models and probabilities, and on the actual cost for each option. If in your country BMWs are often crashed then their premiums will go up. But if they are extremely cheap to repair it goes back down. A US only car brand that could be common occurrence in the US might be a rarity in EU and it will cost a lot to insure. With Tesla one thing is certain: at this time parts and skills are rare, expensive, and time consuming. So unless you live in the Tesla factory, getting the part you need and a person qualified to make the fix will cost a lot and take a long time. They need to develop the support network just like they did with the charging network. Make partnerships with big car service chains, provide training, ensure a steady supply of parts, etc. That's a big logistical undertaking.

mark212 8y ago

from what I remember, most of the cost of car insurance (at least here in the US) is the driver, not the car. Young unmarried men pay the highest premiums because they're the drivers most likely to cause and get into accidents. The cost of repairs and even the value of the car isn't really much of a driver of insurance rates.

ams6110 8y ago
It's both the car, and the driver, and the driver's past claims history. An exotic car is going to cost more to insure regardless of who's driving it. Even more so if the driver is young, male, unmarried, or has a record of accidents or violations. When I added my 16 year old to my insurance, there was quite a difference in cost, depending on which car we said was his primary car.
- acct1771 8y ago
  How'd you figure that out?

hcknwscommenter 8y ago

I would guess, that they simply do not have enough information to come up with a reasonable estimate of their cost of insurance, so they err on the side of making it affordable because it is such a low volume car that is often (but assuredly not always) a second car that gets less use. I further predict that insurance costs are going to rise dramatically in the next few years. All the anecdata (I know I know) I have seen suggest Teslas are comparatively expensive to service for minor bodywork and other repairs.

toast0 8y ago
> because it is such a low volume car that is often (but assuredly not always) a second car that gets less use. I always have to provide a mileage estimate to get an insurance quote -- and if I don't go to enough places that sell my mileage info, I have to send in a mileage declaration about once a year; so use shouldn't have anything to do with it.
- hcknwscommenter 8y ago
  Your anecdote supports my point and undermines your own. Use has everything to do with it. That is why your insurance company wants that mileage information. I change my own oil and easily go years between visits to the mechanic, so there is no way my mileage info is leaking. There are only two times I have had to report mileage: 1. when I had a special discount from liberty mutual for driving less than 500 miles a year; and 2. now because I switched to metromile. In both cases (again) use has everything to do with it.

Phlarp 8y ago

Or you're just ahead of the nightmare service scenario described above and the actuaries don't know how to price it in yet. If so; Model S owners may get assessed in line with a similar price point internal combustion luxury sedan.

Diederich 8y ago
Perhaps. Since their introduction over 6 years ago, well over 200,000 Model S' have been sold, and Geico has insured quite a few of them. > actuaries don't know how to price it in yet This is pretty far from my field of expertise, so I can't make any kind of directed comment. I'll just say that it strikes me as unlikely that Geico either doesn't have enough data yet and/or doesn't know what it's doing. I don't know much about
- Phlarp 8y ago
  What percentage of that 200,000 is in California? I don't think the sample size is near large enough, nor properly distributed to build a comprehensive risk model around. I'm not a subject matter expert either but I would love to hear from someone in the industry.
- close04 8y ago
  It doesn't matter how many were sold but how easy/cheap is to fix them when insurance is needed. For Tesla parts are rare and expensive, authorized service partners are rare and expensive, so fixing the car costs a lot.
cc439 8y ago
Car insurance doesn't cover repairs, it's actually insurance, not an all inclusive payment plan like health "insurance".
- hcknwscommenter 8y ago
  Perhaps you and I use different terminology? Parent comment refers to "full coverage", which I believe includes the costs of repairs no matter whose fault it is.

beenBoutIT 8y ago

Any idea how life insurance companies are dealing with Tesla owners and their autopilot induced fatalities? The number of autopilot -related deaths and crashes seems high considering how few Teslas are on the road.

erikpukinskis 8y ago
> The number of autopilot -related deaths and crashes seems high considering how few Teslas are on the road. That’s just an artifact of increased media coverage.
- beenBoutIT 8y ago
  Tesla has only sold roughly 200k Teslas* as of July. *https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-sold-200000-cars-in-the-us-so-the-7500-tax-credit-is-going-away/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-sold-200000-cars-...
  - Diederich 8y ago
    200k US sales as of July, that's correct. They're current production rate is about 107k/year, slightly more than 1% of General Motors 10M/year.
beat 8y ago
You're committing a couple of different fallacies there, which let sensationalist media (itself full of fallacies) influence your thinking. First, Teslas aren't exactly rare. Upthread, someone said 200,000 have been sold (have not fact-checked, but it seems plausible). Second, autopilot related fatalities are covered breathlessly in the media, ignoring all of the other, far more common sources of fatalities, such as drunk driving. And finally, there is no media coverage of the number of accidents prevented by autopilot, which I suspect is pretty high.
- beenBoutIT 8y ago
  Tesla has maybe sold 200,000 cars world-wide over the course of 15 years, by its own estimate. GM sold close to 4 times that many vehicles in the US alone in Q2 of 2018. Teslas are rare. https://www.gm.com/investors/sales/us-sales-production.html https://www.gm.com/investors/sales/us-sales-production.html

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago

I'll piggyback this to add my own anecdata. I pay about $95/month for Progressive insurance on my $28,000 Subaru BRZ. I got a quote on a $135,000 Tesla Model S P100D, and for the same coverage (Full coverage + Liability with moderate deductibles), it was $140/month.

sixothree 8y ago
This tells me I am in the wrong insurance market. You don't even want to know what I pay for my 2006 car....
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  Have you shopped around recently for insurance? I bought this BRZ about 2 1/2 years ago. At the time, I was paying $90/month for an old 2000 Suzuki Esteem for only liability and uninsured motorist with Nationwide insurance. They quoted me $180 to insure my BRZ for full coverage. I decided to shop around and switched to Progressive after they quoted me the $95 for the BRZ with better coverage and lower deductibles.
  - bri3d 8y ago
    Keep in mind that insurance costs vary extremely widely state to state (i.e., market to market, to the parent poster's point). Different states have different risk profiles but more importantly, widely different insurance regulations.
    - close04 8y ago
      Insurance is based on statistical models and probabilities, and on the actual cost for each option. If in your country BMWs are often crashed then their premiums will go up. But if they are extremely cheap to repair it goes back down. A US only car brand that could be common occurrence in the US might be a rarity in EU and it will cost a lot to insure. With Tesla one thing is certain: at this time parts and skills are rare, expensive, and time consuming. So unless you live in the Tesla factory, getting the part you need and a person qualified to make the fix will cost a lot and take a long time. They need to develop the support network just like they did with the charging network. Make partnerships with big car service chains, provide training, ensure a steady supply of parts, etc. That's a big logistical undertaking.