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Related: Why women in Stem may be better off working in India and Latin America: https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-professional/2015/jun/24/why-women-in-st

Related: Why women in Stem may be better off working in India and Latin America: https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-professional/2015/jun/24/why-women-in-stem-may-be-better-off-working-in-india-and-latin-america#img-1 https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-professional/2015/jun/2... What India Can Teach Silicon Valley About Its Gender Problem: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/silicon-valley-sexism/ https://www.wired.com/2014/08/silicon-valley-sexism/ India and Italy have the highest percentage of female developers: https://blog.hackerrank.com/which-countries-have-the-most-skilled-female-developers/ https://blog.hackerrank.com/which-countries-have-the-most-sk...

gowld 8y ago
I'm not sure that it's a net win to work at more gender-balanced company in exchange for living in a far more sexist society and taking a 50-90% pay cut. Could the US take some lessons from other countries? Likely. Would women be happier moving to those countries? Less likely.
as1mov 8y ago
I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic. The reason for the somewhat balanced gender ratio here is much more mundane than what these articles would make you believe. In India, engineering is one of the "default" career paths for most poor/middle class families children for leading a stable life. It's pretty depressing honestly, children spend the first 20-22 years of their life being a book-worm and they get to choose from a set of "acceptable" careers (Engineering, Medicine, Business). Any unorthodox career paths are out of question unless you are the rebellious kind. What effect does this have on the workforce? You get people (both men and women) who are barely interested in what they do. Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. It's not that women here enter the CS industry in greater numbers because of their own interest in the field, it's just that nobody gives a shit about it so the ratio is equal. This is the case with the service based companies which comprise a huge portion of the workforce. The number of women in startups (which people join on their own volition) is comparable to the US counterparts. The current company where I work, out of ~60 engineers, 4 are women. In US/Europe, you have greater freedom and choice when you consider your career, which you generally choose based on your own interests. IMO, inculcating tech/computers as a hobby at a young age in girls and dispelling the fact that it's only for "nerds" will do a lot more to equal the numbers than any affirmative action hiring ever will.
- et-al 8y ago
  > Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. How is this not the case for software devs in the States? There's plenty of people who joined dev bootcamps because of the possibility of a six-figure salary. Considering how financially-driven many developers in the Bay Area are, I think their interests aren't too different from our Indian compatriots. We're all looking for a way to pay rent, hopefully buy a house, and pursue interests outside of work.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  Is it possible to earn enough in an acceptable career to then later pursue what one would like to?
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Is it possible to earn enough in the unacceptable careers? Engineering, medicine, business covers most choices that pay well, and there is demand. Business in particular is a catch-all which will let you get into any industry that pays well. Of course there are niches outside of them that need a few smart educated people, but they are niches that can only take support a few people and get saturated easily. We have "starving artist" as an expression in English for a reason: there are a lot of great artists that will never really earn enough for more than the cheapest food and shelter with nothing else left over. (there is nothing wrong with such a lifestyle if you are not in my family - if you are in my family we want better for you, and in particular the grandchildren which your life will not support)
  - as1mov 8y ago
    ...not really. It's pretty hard to jump to a completely different career when you are 30-35, I'd presume it's the same in US too. Though people here are quick to jump to a managerial position since it's less stressful and the pay is more.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  " Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. " That would explain the attitude of a lot of workers at the big offshoring companies.

gowld 8y ago

I'm not sure that it's a net win to work at more gender-balanced company in exchange for living in a far more sexist society and taking a 50-90% pay cut. Could the US take some lessons from other countries? Likely. Would women be happier moving to those countries? Less likely.

as1mov 8y ago

I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic. The reason for the somewhat balanced gender ratio here is much more mundane than what these articles would make you believe. In India, engineering is one of the "default" career paths for most poor/middle class families children for leading a stable life. It's pretty depressing honestly, children spend the first 20-22 years of their life being a book-worm and they get to choose from a set of "acceptable" careers (Engineering, Medicine, Business). Any unorthodox career paths are out of question unless you are the rebellious kind. What effect does this have on the workforce? You get people (both men and women) who are barely interested in what they do. Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. It's not that women here enter the CS industry in greater numbers because of their own interest in the field, it's just that nobody gives a shit about it so the ratio is equal. This is the case with the service based companies which comprise a huge portion of the workforce. The number of women in startups (which people join on their own volition) is comparable to the US counterparts. The current company where I work, out of ~60 engineers, 4 are women. In US/Europe, you have greater freedom and choice when you consider your career, which you generally choose based on your own interests. IMO, inculcating tech/computers as a hobby at a young age in girls and dispelling the fact that it's only for "nerds" will do a lot more to equal the numbers than any affirmative action hiring ever will.

et-al 8y ago
> Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours. How is this not the case for software devs in the States? There's plenty of people who joined dev bootcamps because of the possibility of a six-figure salary. Considering how financially-driven many developers in the Bay Area are, I think their interests aren't too different from our Indian compatriots. We're all looking for a way to pay rent, hopefully buy a house, and pursue interests outside of work.
windows_tips 8y ago
Is it possible to earn enough in an acceptable career to then later pursue what one would like to?
- bluGill 8y ago
  Is it possible to earn enough in the unacceptable careers? Engineering, medicine, business covers most choices that pay well, and there is demand. Business in particular is a catch-all which will let you get into any industry that pays well. Of course there are niches outside of them that need a few smart educated people, but they are niches that can only take support a few people and get saturated easily. We have "starving artist" as an expression in English for a reason: there are a lot of great artists that will never really earn enough for more than the cheapest food and shelter with nothing else left over. (there is nothing wrong with such a lifestyle if you are not in my family - if you are in my family we want better for you, and in particular the grandchildren which your life will not support)
- as1mov 8y ago
  ...not really. It's pretty hard to jump to a completely different career when you are 30-35, I'd presume it's the same in US too. Though people here are quick to jump to a managerial position since it's less stressful and the pay is more.
maxxxxx 8y ago
" Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. " That would explain the attitude of a lot of workers at the big offshoring companies.