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I hope not. I hope the car that I paid for becomes simpler, so that I can repair it myself or at a local shop. That would also mean that I get to own the softwa

by gagege 8y ago

I hope not. I hope the car that I paid for becomes simpler, so that I can repair it myself or at a local shop. That would also mean that I get to own the software the car runs. It's sad when actually owning something sounds like an insane fever dream.

close04 8y ago
It may become simpler in some regards (drive train with fewer moving parts) but I think you can take your mind off the "do it yourself" part. The SW and electronics are always proprietary with little chance you'll ever (legally) have access to them. If anything their situation will get a lot worse as "always connected" cars become more common. Most likely trying to change/mod anything there will be detected and trigger some reaction that could go all the way to flagging your car as no longer street legal. And what's left for you to repair? The simplicity you ask for will be introduced exactly where these home repairs used to happen: oil, filters, spark-plugs, a hose here, a cap there, etc. But the rest of the car stays mostly the same or gets even more complex. Most mechanical parts that aren't touched by the transition from ICE to electric motor could stay the same (suspensions, brakes), while the interior electronics will become more or less the equivalent of today's smartphones. Too complex for most people to try fixing themselves.
- gagege 8y ago
  That's a good point about most of the home repairs we do being replaced by... not having those parts in the first place.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > The SW and electronics are always proprietary with little chance you'll ever (legally) have access to them. There's really not that much critical software in a passable electric car. I would argue that electric drive reduces the complexity of many things which require software in modern cars: ESC, TCS, (some forms of) ABS, preferred differential behaviors. In an internal combustion car, everything requires a considerable amount of knowledge specific to internal combustion engines and the complex drivetrains they make necessary. In an electric car (specifically with independent motors), TCS, light ABS, and ESC all become a matter of applying standard control theory, and tuning handful of parameters to model human expectations. Now, when it comes to something as complex as a Tesla (nonstandard door latches, window seals, etc. which make software necessary to operate the basic mechanisms of doors [which could otherwise be straightforward]), you're going to see a lot more software involved. Ultimately, the software required to make a basic independent electric drive vehicle operate is pretty small, and could be produced to a reasonable standard of quality by an intermediate programmer in a matter of months. The knowledge required to make one which manages traction and stability effectively could be learned and applied in some additional months by that same caliber of developer. The power circuitry may be more interesting, but ultimately is well within the competence of a practicing electronic engineer (and ultimately, a significant number of Joes Public who are interested enough to read a manual).
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Hmm, a car that phones home to tattle on the owner? I forsee a strong future market for 'classic' vehicles. And 'disconnect service', ha!
maxxxxx 8y ago
"It's sad when actually owning something sounds like an insane fever dream." That's where it's going, my friend!
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Some people really think so. Take a step back and look at Average Joe, and I think privately owned vehicles aren't going away. Ever.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
The idea that you'd even have a personal self-driving car is probably an insane fever dream already. We seem to be going in a direction where you'll hail cars as needed from a fleet someone else owns.
Someguywhatever 8y ago
To me maintaining it is a hassle. I don't care about fixing it, I explicitly do not want to fix it, I also don't care about the software it runs. A car is a tool like a stove to me, I only care that the stove works. Fixing or maintaining it is not in any way interesting or worthwhile it's just a means to get from A to B. If there is transit I would take that instead, but if I have to own a car I would rather own one that simply works and otherwise stays out of my way and is not a hassle. Who says that you need to own it either? Perhaps you just subscribe to a car service like zipcar or somesuch and you text msg the car to drive over to you when you need it, and when it's not being used or books it goes off to get itself serviced and whatnot. Sounds great to me.

by gagege 8y ago

close04 8y ago

It may become simpler in some regards (drive train with fewer moving parts) but I think you can take your mind off the "do it yourself" part. The SW and electronics are always proprietary with little chance you'll ever (legally) have access to them. If anything their situation will get a lot worse as "always connected" cars become more common. Most likely trying to change/mod anything there will be detected and trigger some reaction that could go all the way to flagging your car as no longer street legal. And what's left for you to repair? The simplicity you ask for will be introduced exactly where these home repairs used to happen: oil, filters, spark-plugs, a hose here, a cap there, etc. But the rest of the car stays mostly the same or gets even more complex. Most mechanical parts that aren't touched by the transition from ICE to electric motor could stay the same (suspensions, brakes), while the interior electronics will become more or less the equivalent of today's smartphones. Too complex for most people to try fixing themselves.

gagege 8y ago
That's a good point about most of the home repairs we do being replaced by... not having those parts in the first place.
microcolonel 8y ago
> The SW and electronics are always proprietary with little chance you'll ever (legally) have access to them. There's really not that much critical software in a passable electric car. I would argue that electric drive reduces the complexity of many things which require software in modern cars: ESC, TCS, (some forms of) ABS, preferred differential behaviors. In an internal combustion car, everything requires a considerable amount of knowledge specific to internal combustion engines and the complex drivetrains they make necessary. In an electric car (specifically with independent motors), TCS, light ABS, and ESC all become a matter of applying standard control theory, and tuning handful of parameters to model human expectations. Now, when it comes to something as complex as a Tesla (nonstandard door latches, window seals, etc. which make software necessary to operate the basic mechanisms of doors [which could otherwise be straightforward]), you're going to see a lot more software involved. Ultimately, the software required to make a basic independent electric drive vehicle operate is pretty small, and could be produced to a reasonable standard of quality by an intermediate programmer in a matter of months. The knowledge required to make one which manages traction and stability effectively could be learned and applied in some additional months by that same caliber of developer. The power circuitry may be more interesting, but ultimately is well within the competence of a practicing electronic engineer (and ultimately, a significant number of Joes Public who are interested enough to read a manual).
rootusrootus 8y ago
Hmm, a car that phones home to tattle on the owner? I forsee a strong future market for 'classic' vehicles. And 'disconnect service', ha!

maxxxxx 8y ago

"It's sad when actually owning something sounds like an insane fever dream." That's where it's going, my friend!

rootusrootus 8y ago
Some people really think so. Take a step back and look at Average Joe, and I think privately owned vehicles aren't going away. Ever.

daveFNbuck 8y ago

The idea that you'd even have a personal self-driving car is probably an insane fever dream already. We seem to be going in a direction where you'll hail cars as needed from a fleet someone else owns.

Someguywhatever 8y ago

To me maintaining it is a hassle. I don't care about fixing it, I explicitly do not want to fix it, I also don't care about the software it runs. A car is a tool like a stove to me, I only care that the stove works. Fixing or maintaining it is not in any way interesting or worthwhile it's just a means to get from A to B. If there is transit I would take that instead, but if I have to own a car I would rather own one that simply works and otherwise stays out of my way and is not a hassle. Who says that you need to own it either? Perhaps you just subscribe to a car service like zipcar or somesuch and you text msg the car to drive over to you when you need it, and when it's not being used or books it goes off to get itself serviced and whatnot. Sounds great to me.