5 ms·

My Escalade begs to differ. Every time I go to the dealership (which has been far too often) it is very very busy. I'm glad the industry solved the plugs/fluids

My Escalade begs to differ. Every time I go to the dealership (which has been far too often) it is very very busy. I'm glad the industry solved the plugs/fluids maintenance issues because it's time to solve some other problems. I've replaced 5 (yes 5, not all the same one either) door handles on my $90k Escalade. I've replaced the suspension entirely (including air compressor for the rear shocks) twice. I could go on... If Cadillac made an electric car (and it wasn't a piece of shit) it might just bankrupt that dealership. The dealers that might do well with EV's are the quality/value brands like Toyota. I've made one dealer visit in my 4 Runner's 200k mi. life and it was something I could have easily taken elsewhere.

occamrazor 8y ago
It looks like your Cadillac dealer would have been equally happy to sell an electric Escalade. None of the problems you listed is related to the powertrain.
- ryanmarsh 8y ago
  I stand corrected.
maxxxxx 8y ago
" I've replaced 5 (yes 5, not all the same one either) door handles on my $90k Escalade. I've replaced the suspension entirely (including air compressor for the rear shocks) twice. I could go on..." Actually these problems still would exist in an EV.
- ryanmarsh 8y ago
  Fair enough. You raise a good point. I've only replaced one transmission ever (it was the Escalade). Most cars these days don't have drive train issues. I see your point. Maybe if they keep making cheap doorhandles these dealers will be fine.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Considering how unpleasant it is to deal with car dealers I am happy if they go away. Buying from a dealer sucks royally (why not sell cars at a fixed price? why do I always have to go through hours of stupid negotiation?) and for service I prefer independent mechanics.
  - munchbunny 8y ago
    If I were buying a $90k car and you told me that $50-$100 of that went into sturdy door handles, I'd be entirely okay with that. Unless I'm buying a track car, I'm expecting the high price tag to be reasonably good parts and then the "death by a thousand cuts" of small design and engineering details meant to make a better driving/riding experience. That's the 80% of the work/cost that makes 20% of a difference.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  Badge engineered vehicles with extras tacked on are bad news because there isn't any real ownership from engineering. Trade it in for a Tahoe and you wouldn't have these problems.
greglindahl 8y ago
I had to replace 5 of the 4 door handles on my early Model S -- every car manufacturer puts newer widgets on their high-end models, and then has reliability problems with them.
adrr 8y ago
Issues with luxury cars is a different thing than maintenance. If you have air suspension on your car luxury car, it's not going to last the life of the car. My 10-year-old Lexus still gets frequent recalls like airbags, melting dash and other things. There are lots of wear items on cars that affect both EV and gas cars like shocks and brakes.
poulsbohemian 8y ago
I hope this doesn't sound like an attack, as I'm asking it sincerely: So why do you keep it? When I talk to friends with high-priced vehicles like yours, all of them mention how many times they've had it into the shop. My lady friend was spending $xxxx / year on her BMW before she got rid of it, plus it required premium gas. Yes, my car is a piece of dirty junk, but its maintenance costs are minimal. I have been trying to derive whether owners of high-end vehicles simply talk more about their problems (because they are presumably more expensive than repairs on more pedestrian vehicles) or whether these cars really are more of a pain.
- cpursley 8y ago
  Yep, simpler is better. A fancy lifestyle (which means expensive "things" above and beyond their utility function) often end up requiring too big of a time requirement than they're even worth.
- leviathant 8y ago
  In a thread about Tesle and Mercedes, I'm not sure I'm 100% qualified to speak to the luxury segment, but having traded a 2001 Hyundai Elantra in for a 2006 Mini Cooper some years ago (a pretty significant difference in fit and finish) I've done some thinking on this. Luxury cars aren't build to last. The target market is generally not keeping their cars around for more than a few years. I keep the proverbial purse strings pretty tight for most things, but even for me, the additional cost of premium gas is largely unnoticeable. I do get frustrated by some engineering choices: On the Hyundai, if you had 13mm & 10mm sockets and a Phillips head screwdriver you could practically disassemble the entire car, but on the Mini I needed three different size Torx heads to take the stereo out - thanks BMW. I largely avoid the dealer for maintenance, but after a few snafus at my local garage, I went to the dealer for a new radiator, and they gave me a brand new Mini as a loaner, and I lived 40 miles from the dealership - which in many ways feels more akin to an Apple store than a garage with a sales office. Every time they work on the car, no matter how small the job, it gets a complimentary car wash there. Parts are marked up tremendously compared to my Hyundai, but again, the cars aren't necessarily built to last, so much as they're built for experience. This is exemplified in my Mini by "lifetime transmission fluid." There's no (easy) way to drain and refill the fluid in my automatic transmission (I'm in a city, I'm done with stick for now) because the fluid is "good for the lifetime of the car." At 12 years old and 150,000 miles, I've definitely exceeded the expected lifetime of the car. But it's fun to drive. It's easy to park. It's surprisingly well equipped for something so old. The interior trim is nice, although particularly with a Mini, there are more than a few "form over function" UX issues. People express shock when I tell them how old the car is. The experience at the dealership is tailored for people who have more money than free time, and who trade for a new car after two or three years. No one ever expressed excitement about getting into my Hyundai, but I still get people telling me, as we get in the car, that they've "always wanted drive a Mini Cooper" The other thing luxury vehicles offer that's less sexy but worth the premium: Advanced safety features. It used to be that you paid extra money for things like chrome and leather interior. Nowadays, what sets luxury vehicles apart are the cutting edge tech and safety features. All that being said, my next vehicle is probably going to be a Ford Transit Connect. Hard swing back toward utility and serviceability. I'm going to miss the Mini though, warts and all.
crysin 8y ago
Replacing door handles is definitely not a common maintenance requirement for cars. Sounds like your 90k Escalade may just be an overpriced lemon.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  Ironic, considering the issues Tesla has had with uncommanded door issues...
- jandrese 8y ago
  Or maybe the GP poster just needs to be more gentle on the door handles? Break 1 maybe it was a defective. Break 5 and I start to wonder what you're doing to the things.
cdibona 8y ago
So I'd imagine that the Escalade repairs are being charged back to the manufacturer under warranty, or to you, so I'd imagine the dealership is happy to fix those doors 5 , 6 , 10 times or whatever.
MisterTea 8y ago
Hate to say it but GM has piss poor body engineering. I've owned quite a few GM vehicles including vans and trucks for a business. What I've learned about GM over the years: drivetrain is pretty stout mechanically. Rarely had big problems with engines or transmissions and they will last 10+ years and 100k+ hard city miles. Everything else is crap. You spend a lot of time fixing little things. Broken plastic bits in the cabin are the first items (dash and door pieces) followed by silly things like door handles, hoses, small plastic bits on/around the engine, and other minor yet highly aggravating issues. And don't get me started on their sad excuse for door handles. They've been producing cheap trash designs since the 90's. Even my old 95 Tahoe suffered a few broken door handles. They can't help but make a flimsy plastic carrier and a thin flimsy cast zinc handle that fails after a few years. The usual culprit is a small thin bit of plastic which holds the whole thing together breaks or the handle snaps from mechanical fatigue. It's laughably pathetic and partly why I won't ever touch another GM ever again. GM in a nutshell: A decent drivetrain surrounded by plastic trash.
jasonparallel 8y ago
Tesla model S also have common issues with door handles breaking.

occamrazor 8y ago

It looks like your Cadillac dealer would have been equally happy to sell an electric Escalade. None of the problems you listed is related to the powertrain.

ryanmarsh 8y ago
I stand corrected.

maxxxxx 8y ago

" I've replaced 5 (yes 5, not all the same one either) door handles on my $90k Escalade. I've replaced the suspension entirely (including air compressor for the rear shocks) twice. I could go on..." Actually these problems still would exist in an EV.

ryanmarsh 8y ago
Fair enough. You raise a good point. I've only replaced one transmission ever (it was the Escalade). Most cars these days don't have drive train issues. I see your point. Maybe if they keep making cheap doorhandles these dealers will be fine.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Considering how unpleasant it is to deal with car dealers I am happy if they go away. Buying from a dealer sucks royally (why not sell cars at a fixed price? why do I always have to go through hours of stupid negotiation?) and for service I prefer independent mechanics.
- munchbunny 8y ago
  If I were buying a $90k car and you told me that $50-$100 of that went into sturdy door handles, I'd be entirely okay with that. Unless I'm buying a track car, I'm expecting the high price tag to be reasonably good parts and then the "death by a thousand cuts" of small design and engineering details meant to make a better driving/riding experience. That's the 80% of the work/cost that makes 20% of a difference.
kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
Badge engineered vehicles with extras tacked on are bad news because there isn't any real ownership from engineering. Trade it in for a Tahoe and you wouldn't have these problems.

greglindahl 8y ago

I had to replace 5 of the 4 door handles on my early Model S -- every car manufacturer puts newer widgets on their high-end models, and then has reliability problems with them.

adrr 8y ago

Issues with luxury cars is a different thing than maintenance. If you have air suspension on your car luxury car, it's not going to last the life of the car. My 10-year-old Lexus still gets frequent recalls like airbags, melting dash and other things. There are lots of wear items on cars that affect both EV and gas cars like shocks and brakes.

poulsbohemian 8y ago

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack, as I'm asking it sincerely: So why do you keep it? When I talk to friends with high-priced vehicles like yours, all of them mention how many times they've had it into the shop. My lady friend was spending $xxxx / year on her BMW before she got rid of it, plus it required premium gas. Yes, my car is a piece of dirty junk, but its maintenance costs are minimal. I have been trying to derive whether owners of high-end vehicles simply talk more about their problems (because they are presumably more expensive than repairs on more pedestrian vehicles) or whether these cars really are more of a pain.

cpursley 8y ago
Yep, simpler is better. A fancy lifestyle (which means expensive "things" above and beyond their utility function) often end up requiring too big of a time requirement than they're even worth.
leviathant 8y ago
In a thread about Tesle and Mercedes, I'm not sure I'm 100% qualified to speak to the luxury segment, but having traded a 2001 Hyundai Elantra in for a 2006 Mini Cooper some years ago (a pretty significant difference in fit and finish) I've done some thinking on this. Luxury cars aren't build to last. The target market is generally not keeping their cars around for more than a few years. I keep the proverbial purse strings pretty tight for most things, but even for me, the additional cost of premium gas is largely unnoticeable. I do get frustrated by some engineering choices: On the Hyundai, if you had 13mm & 10mm sockets and a Phillips head screwdriver you could practically disassemble the entire car, but on the Mini I needed three different size Torx heads to take the stereo out - thanks BMW. I largely avoid the dealer for maintenance, but after a few snafus at my local garage, I went to the dealer for a new radiator, and they gave me a brand new Mini as a loaner, and I lived 40 miles from the dealership - which in many ways feels more akin to an Apple store than a garage with a sales office. Every time they work on the car, no matter how small the job, it gets a complimentary car wash there. Parts are marked up tremendously compared to my Hyundai, but again, the cars aren't necessarily built to last, so much as they're built for experience. This is exemplified in my Mini by "lifetime transmission fluid." There's no (easy) way to drain and refill the fluid in my automatic transmission (I'm in a city, I'm done with stick for now) because the fluid is "good for the lifetime of the car." At 12 years old and 150,000 miles, I've definitely exceeded the expected lifetime of the car. But it's fun to drive. It's easy to park. It's surprisingly well equipped for something so old. The interior trim is nice, although particularly with a Mini, there are more than a few "form over function" UX issues. People express shock when I tell them how old the car is. The experience at the dealership is tailored for people who have more money than free time, and who trade for a new car after two or three years. No one ever expressed excitement about getting into my Hyundai, but I still get people telling me, as we get in the car, that they've "always wanted drive a Mini Cooper" The other thing luxury vehicles offer that's less sexy but worth the premium: Advanced safety features. It used to be that you paid extra money for things like chrome and leather interior. Nowadays, what sets luxury vehicles apart are the cutting edge tech and safety features. All that being said, my next vehicle is probably going to be a Ford Transit Connect. Hard swing back toward utility and serviceability. I'm going to miss the Mini though, warts and all.

crysin 8y ago

Replacing door handles is definitely not a common maintenance requirement for cars. Sounds like your 90k Escalade may just be an overpriced lemon.

FireBeyond 8y ago
Ironic, considering the issues Tesla has had with uncommanded door issues...
jandrese 8y ago
Or maybe the GP poster just needs to be more gentle on the door handles? Break 1 maybe it was a defective. Break 5 and I start to wonder what you're doing to the things.

cdibona 8y ago

So I'd imagine that the Escalade repairs are being charged back to the manufacturer under warranty, or to you, so I'd imagine the dealership is happy to fix those doors 5 , 6 , 10 times or whatever.

MisterTea 8y ago

Hate to say it but GM has piss poor body engineering. I've owned quite a few GM vehicles including vans and trucks for a business. What I've learned about GM over the years: drivetrain is pretty stout mechanically. Rarely had big problems with engines or transmissions and they will last 10+ years and 100k+ hard city miles. Everything else is crap. You spend a lot of time fixing little things. Broken plastic bits in the cabin are the first items (dash and door pieces) followed by silly things like door handles, hoses, small plastic bits on/around the engine, and other minor yet highly aggravating issues. And don't get me started on their sad excuse for door handles. They've been producing cheap trash designs since the 90's. Even my old 95 Tahoe suffered a few broken door handles. They can't help but make a flimsy plastic carrier and a thin flimsy cast zinc handle that fails after a few years. The usual culprit is a small thin bit of plastic which holds the whole thing together breaks or the handle snaps from mechanical fatigue. It's laughably pathetic and partly why I won't ever touch another GM ever again. GM in a nutshell: A decent drivetrain surrounded by plastic trash.

jasonparallel 8y ago

Tesla model S also have common issues with door handles breaking.