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> I’ve always thought Tesla’s deepest moat was its battery production. I wonder. Panasonic's got a truly massive amount invested in the Nevada "gigafactory" an

> I’ve always thought Tesla’s deepest moat was its battery production. I wonder. Panasonic's got a truly massive amount invested in the Nevada "gigafactory" and I imagine they could sell batteries to Mercedes if they wanted to.

dragontamer 8y ago
Panasonic can sell cells for sure, but not batteries. Tesla owns the batteries, Panasonic owns the cells. This is confusing because most people refer to "cells" as "batteries". A "9V Battery" is in fact a battery, made up of 6 cells. But an "AA battery" is actually a cell (made up of a single cell of size AA). Its important to remember the technicality here. An 18650 Lithium Ion Cell is made by Panasonic. When the cells are merged together with electronics (over-voltage / under-voltage sensors, charging, balancing, etc. etc.), that's when it becomes a "battery". Tesla's biggest moat is certainly its "battery", the electronics and smarts that it uses to put cells together. But Panasonic owns the chemistry, so to replicate Tesla's efforts, other manufacturers will be able to buy cells from Panasonic and build their own batteries. The question therefore, is whether or not other companies can combine cells in such a way that they are properly cooled, properly maintained, etc. etc. It seems possible for sure, but Tesla certainly has a headstart on battery technology. (But no "moat" on cell technology).
- justin66 8y ago
  Fair point about the terminology, but the comment I was replying to mentioned "battery production" as a moat, not "battery technology." I just assume the hard part about battery production is not designing the silicon but cranking out the necessary number of high-quality cells, with all due respect to Tesla's excellent electronics and design.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    Hmmm... that seems to be a valid interpretation of the thread. Not the way I read it initially though. But yeah, seems to checkout.

dragontamer 8y ago

Panasonic can sell cells for sure, but not batteries. Tesla owns the batteries, Panasonic owns the cells. This is confusing because most people refer to "cells" as "batteries". A "9V Battery" is in fact a battery, made up of 6 cells. But an "AA battery" is actually a cell (made up of a single cell of size AA). Its important to remember the technicality here. An 18650 Lithium Ion Cell is made by Panasonic. When the cells are merged together with electronics (over-voltage / under-voltage sensors, charging, balancing, etc. etc.), that's when it becomes a "battery". Tesla's biggest moat is certainly its "battery", the electronics and smarts that it uses to put cells together. But Panasonic owns the chemistry, so to replicate Tesla's efforts, other manufacturers will be able to buy cells from Panasonic and build their own batteries. The question therefore, is whether or not other companies can combine cells in such a way that they are properly cooled, properly maintained, etc. etc. It seems possible for sure, but Tesla certainly has a headstart on battery technology. (But no "moat" on cell technology).

justin66 8y ago
Fair point about the terminology, but the comment I was replying to mentioned "battery production" as a moat, not "battery technology." I just assume the hard part about battery production is not designing the silicon but cranking out the necessary number of high-quality cells, with all due respect to Tesla's excellent electronics and design.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  Hmmm... that seems to be a valid interpretation of the thread. Not the way I read it initially though. But yeah, seems to checkout.