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I wonder if there some other services that colleges provide that he misses out: 1. Space just to get away and think 2. meeting other people 3. meeting people

I wonder if there some other services that colleges provide that he misses out: 1. Space just to get away and think 2. meeting other people 3. meeting people to date 4. Physical scheduled deadlines to ensure that you complete the task When the online system provides those, I think it'll be game over. I can see a hybrid though: my underused hotel turns into a dorm with high bandwidth connection to Stanford's curriculum and the local professor will give coaching when necessary.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Just removing responsibility for accreditation from universities would be a start.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  That's an interesting idea. Could you explain your reasoning a bit?
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    At the moment you can't really compare the results from one university to another. This makes it a market for Lemons[1]. If they are all teaching to a common standard then it would open up some real competition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons
pc86 8y ago
Why are the deadlines at an online school any less real than those at a physical school?
- throwawayjava 8y ago
  > Why are the deadlines at an online school any less real than those at a physical school? I'm not in education atm but have a lot of experience working with students. This is a real psychological effect even if it's maybe hard for tech types to understand. I think it has to do with the fact that social pressure is avoidable online (you don't have to show up and face the teacher whose work you didn't do). That perception has a strong effect on students; they feel shame for not doing their work even when teachers don't really give a damn about whether they did their homework/project. Maybe not impossible to overcome, but a real problem. Education disruptors ignore these sorts of strong psychological effects around education at their own peril...
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    It's the anonymity of a large university classroom that makes it possible to feel like it's acceptable to stop attending - my best attended classes were those where the professor knew my name. I imagine there would be worse absenteeism in online courses.
- spyspy 8y ago
  It's not real until you're sprinting through the dark basement of an old building trying to find the right door to slip your essay under by the 7am cutoff. But seriously I agree, almost everything is handed in electronically now anyway.
- projectramo 8y ago
  The deadlines are just as real, but the adherence to those deadlines is quite different. From my personal experience the difference is night and day. And not just for college courses vs online courses, but even for casual offline courses vs online courses. The data apparently reflects my personal experience. I can't find any of the (numerous) studies I had seen before, but this link alludes to them: https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/articles/2015/01/30/experts-debate-graduation-rates-for-online-students https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/articles/2...
sevensor 8y ago
Let's not forget where big public universities have really been spending their (and their donors') money lately: 5. Luxury student dorms. 6. High-end gym facilities. 7. Junior professional sports (Bonus: pay and benefits for the athletes is peanuts.) The things I don't like about universities are the hardest to replace.
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  >5. Luxury student dorms. Having slept in many of those dorms, I would not call them luxurious.
- sdinsn 8y ago
  Luxury dorms? Which schools have that?
  - stephenhuey 8y ago
    Some may not use the word luxury, but there are a few nicer ones out there. https://www.housebeautiful.com/promotions/g21086931/best-college-dorms/ https://www.housebeautiful.com/promotions/g21086931/best-col...
    - Woofles 8y ago
      I went to WashU (#1 on that list) and while the dorms were nice I wouldn't say they were "nicer than your apartment" or "luxury". The benefits that you would find that you wouldn't find at most other places are personal bathrooms (sort of... you're still sharing with other students but just not a full hall of them), tempurpedic mattresses (only in the older dorms when I was there), and maybe carpeted floors. Beyond that it's not like we got anything crazy. We had a common room that was basically a table and a few chairs to study at, one in the basement that had a few couches and a TV, and one tiny kitchen for the entire building. Just a little bit of context as far as "luxury dorms" go since I see WashU at the top of almost every list. Maybe luxury means your plumbing doesn't break when it gets cold and you don't get athlete's foot from the showers in the shared bathroom.
  - 8y ago
longerthoughts 8y ago
I didn't read his opinion as challenging the value of a true college experience, just suggesting that the cost savings of online education will make it a much more attractive option for a lot of people. Your points made me curious, though - it'll be interesting to see if there's a shift to favor a certain type of individual who thrives in an online education system vs traditional, as well as what implications that has for workplace performance.
- vtange 8y ago
  The savings from the cost of traditional college helps very much if a MOOC student manages to find a way to network with people via Meetups or other ways - and with the money saved one no longer has to be stingy over paying membership fees for some organizations
madrox 8y ago
Let me see if I can give this a shot: 1. Nature...have you tried it? 2. Meetups and other social gatherings around various interests and trades 3. OkCupid, Tinder, etc. 4. ...a job? Jira? One of a number of existing mechanisms for accountability? There you go! I found game over for you! As someone who didn't go to college until their late 20s, I would've foregone the whole thing if I could've done it online. I think people overvalue the "go to college after high school" thing just because it's become such an accepted practice, but it's a normality fallacy.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  It is dramatically harder to meet someone on OkCupid or Tinder than it is in real life, unless you're either (1) a woman, or (2) a significantly more attractive than average man.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  There's a difference between "going to college" to take classes, and dedicating oneself to a subject in an environment with capable peers and professors. Here's what the latter looks like: http://cds.cern.ch/record/548966/files/0204295.pdf http://cds.cern.ch/record/548966/files/0204295.pdf Unfortunately, the great majority of young people only gets to experience the only former, and they are being cheated and don't even know it.
theWheez 8y ago
I dropped out after my sophomore year after I got an offer to move from an intern position to a JR developer position. I enjoyed my time greatly, but also do not regret my decision to leave partway through (yet). Would a 2-year, highly internship and industry focused program be able to offer the same social benefits while reducing cost?
- sodafountan 8y ago
  I did something similar after one year, I dropped out to start an app development business that was growing for me pretty steadily, the business didn't do well long term and I took a job in the industry. I Haven't regretted it yet and I'm far ahead of my peers in just the debt load alone, that doesn't even include my higher salary, better resume and more years of experience. I'm not too upset that I missed a few years of binge drinking myself to death to get a head start on my life.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

Just removing responsibility for accreditation from universities would be a start.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
That's an interesting idea. Could you explain your reasoning a bit?
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  At the moment you can't really compare the results from one university to another. This makes it a market for Lemons[1]. If they are all teaching to a common standard then it would open up some real competition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

pc86 8y ago

Why are the deadlines at an online school any less real than those at a physical school?

throwawayjava 8y ago
> Why are the deadlines at an online school any less real than those at a physical school? I'm not in education atm but have a lot of experience working with students. This is a real psychological effect even if it's maybe hard for tech types to understand. I think it has to do with the fact that social pressure is avoidable online (you don't have to show up and face the teacher whose work you didn't do). That perception has a strong effect on students; they feel shame for not doing their work even when teachers don't really give a damn about whether they did their homework/project. Maybe not impossible to overcome, but a real problem. Education disruptors ignore these sorts of strong psychological effects around education at their own peril...
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  It's the anonymity of a large university classroom that makes it possible to feel like it's acceptable to stop attending - my best attended classes were those where the professor knew my name. I imagine there would be worse absenteeism in online courses.
spyspy 8y ago
It's not real until you're sprinting through the dark basement of an old building trying to find the right door to slip your essay under by the 7am cutoff. But seriously I agree, almost everything is handed in electronically now anyway.
projectramo 8y ago
The deadlines are just as real, but the adherence to those deadlines is quite different. From my personal experience the difference is night and day. And not just for college courses vs online courses, but even for casual offline courses vs online courses. The data apparently reflects my personal experience. I can't find any of the (numerous) studies I had seen before, but this link alludes to them: https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/articles/2015/01/30/experts-debate-graduation-rates-for-online-students https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/articles/2...

sevensor 8y ago

Let's not forget where big public universities have really been spending their (and their donors') money lately: 5. Luxury student dorms. 6. High-end gym facilities. 7. Junior professional sports (Bonus: pay and benefits for the athletes is peanuts.) The things I don't like about universities are the hardest to replace.

mrguyorama 8y ago
>5. Luxury student dorms. Having slept in many of those dorms, I would not call them luxurious.
sdinsn 8y ago
Luxury dorms? Which schools have that?
- stephenhuey 8y ago
  Some may not use the word luxury, but there are a few nicer ones out there. https://www.housebeautiful.com/promotions/g21086931/best-college-dorms/ https://www.housebeautiful.com/promotions/g21086931/best-col...
  - Woofles 8y ago
    I went to WashU (#1 on that list) and while the dorms were nice I wouldn't say they were "nicer than your apartment" or "luxury". The benefits that you would find that you wouldn't find at most other places are personal bathrooms (sort of... you're still sharing with other students but just not a full hall of them), tempurpedic mattresses (only in the older dorms when I was there), and maybe carpeted floors. Beyond that it's not like we got anything crazy. We had a common room that was basically a table and a few chairs to study at, one in the basement that had a few couches and a TV, and one tiny kitchen for the entire building. Just a little bit of context as far as "luxury dorms" go since I see WashU at the top of almost every list. Maybe luxury means your plumbing doesn't break when it gets cold and you don't get athlete's foot from the showers in the shared bathroom.
- 8y ago

longerthoughts 8y ago

I didn't read his opinion as challenging the value of a true college experience, just suggesting that the cost savings of online education will make it a much more attractive option for a lot of people. Your points made me curious, though - it'll be interesting to see if there's a shift to favor a certain type of individual who thrives in an online education system vs traditional, as well as what implications that has for workplace performance.

vtange 8y ago
The savings from the cost of traditional college helps very much if a MOOC student manages to find a way to network with people via Meetups or other ways - and with the money saved one no longer has to be stingy over paying membership fees for some organizations

madrox 8y ago

Let me see if I can give this a shot: 1. Nature...have you tried it? 2. Meetups and other social gatherings around various interests and trades 3. OkCupid, Tinder, etc. 4. ...a job? Jira? One of a number of existing mechanisms for accountability? There you go! I found game over for you! As someone who didn't go to college until their late 20s, I would've foregone the whole thing if I could've done it online. I think people overvalue the "go to college after high school" thing just because it's become such an accepted practice, but it's a normality fallacy.

umanwizard 8y ago
It is dramatically harder to meet someone on OkCupid or Tinder than it is in real life, unless you're either (1) a woman, or (2) a significantly more attractive than average man.
HarryHirsch 8y ago
There's a difference between "going to college" to take classes, and dedicating oneself to a subject in an environment with capable peers and professors. Here's what the latter looks like: http://cds.cern.ch/record/548966/files/0204295.pdf http://cds.cern.ch/record/548966/files/0204295.pdf Unfortunately, the great majority of young people only gets to experience the only former, and they are being cheated and don't even know it.

theWheez 8y ago

I dropped out after my sophomore year after I got an offer to move from an intern position to a JR developer position. I enjoyed my time greatly, but also do not regret my decision to leave partway through (yet). Would a 2-year, highly internship and industry focused program be able to offer the same social benefits while reducing cost?

sodafountan 8y ago
I did something similar after one year, I dropped out to start an app development business that was growing for me pretty steadily, the business didn't do well long term and I took a job in the industry. I Haven't regretted it yet and I'm far ahead of my peers in just the debt load alone, that doesn't even include my higher salary, better resume and more years of experience. I'm not too upset that I missed a few years of binge drinking myself to death to get a head start on my life.