11 ms·

mo for $20 no contract

36 points by nirmal 16y ago

lukev 16y ago
1GB per month for $20? What is this, 2001? Of course, you just know all the Dogberts at Verizon are wagging their tails over collecting those juicy overage fees.
- exit 16y ago
  why is wireless data so bloody expensive? what are verizons margins on $20/1GB?
  - DougWebb 16y ago
    About $20/GB.
    - exit 16y ago
      do share holders have any right to know the actual figure?
      - tibbon 16y ago
        Unless you've got a board seat, probably not. You get what's in their public disclosure for investors and that's about it.
  - jws 16y ago
    Per wikipedia://GSM… GSM has used a variety of voice codecs to squeeze 3.1 kHz audio into between 6.5 and 13 kbit/s. So that is between 100k and 200k bytes per minute of speech. That gigabyte is the same radio load as 10000 minutes of talk time. Where does one get 10000 minutes of talk time for only $20? I think the question is Why is wireless voice so bloody expensive‽
    - danilocampos 16y ago
      (Pedantic) Verizon uses CDMA, not GSM, but the question is still a fair one. I wonder how the numbers change for CDMA, if at all.
      - jws 16y ago
        Wikipedia says CDMA uses 3 rates, 8.5kbps, 4kbps, and 0.8kbs at the sender's choosing. It averages about 6kbps, so the numbers are about the same. There are improved codecs, but I can't tell if they are in use. The 0.8kbps is just for encoding background noise when the person is not talking.
    - sparky 16y ago
      Obviously this doesn't even begin to explain it, but the realtime/quality-of-service requirements of voice are much more rigid, so it makes sense that voice would cost the carrier more per-bit than data. But still...
  - pchristensen 16y ago
    That's called "monopoly rent". Normally competition drives prices down, but wireless data provision is an expensive and legally difficult business to get into. Is anybody selling 3G data for appreciably less? AT&T iPad rates are $15 for 250MB, $25 for 2GB.
    - mike-cardwell 16y ago
      In the UK, on a non contract pay as you go service, I give T-Mobile £20 once every 6 months, and in exchange for that, they give me 1GB of 3G data per month.
    - ahizzle 16y ago
      Just be glad you guys don't live in Canada (at least not when it comes to wireless data ;). One of the larger providers up here, Telus, charges $30/month for 500mb and $65/mo for 5 gigs... and that's all ON TOP of whatever your actual wireless plan is. Yick.
jws 16y ago
The bundle is costing about $130 more than the iPad, plus whatever sliver of profit they get on the iPad wholesale. No risk taken by Verizon, no need for a contract.
arethuza 16y ago
I have an iPad and a MiFi from 3 and it's a good combination for occasional 3G access (most of the locations I use my iPad at have WiFi). The MiFi with 8GB PAYG was about £70 whereas a 3G capable iPad is £100 more than the WiFi models here in the UK - also means I can have other devices (laptops/ipod) on the MiFi when required. [Edit: I would never get a MiFi on contract - PAYG works fine with no risk of silly bills]
- callumjones 16y ago
  Yes but the £100 is a one off cost.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    The £70 for the MiFi is a one off cost - you still have to pay for the data in both cases.
scottw 16y ago
You can get the same MiFi 2200 device from Virgin Mobile (my local BestBuy carries them) which uses Sprint's 3G network for $40/month unlimited bandwidth and no contract. I bought one last month for a road trip and love it.
- bradleyland 16y ago
  Heh. They're out of stock. Go figure. http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/broadband2go.html http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/broadband2go... That's an awesome deal though. When they come available again, I'm jumping on that.
  - ydant 16y ago
    Like the grandparent said, BestBuy has them. I asked them specifically on Twitter and they responded: > Your best bet to purchase a MiFi right now would be going to one of our retailers- @BestBuy, @RadioShack, @Target I went to BestBuy and walked out with one. And, unlike my experiences trying to set my iPad up on AT&T, it lets you set up the MiFi even if you don't have any other source of internet access. I'm not entirely overjoyed with the speeds, but the $40 for unlimited with no contract (they explicitly say you can sign up when you need it, cancel when you don't) is a good price.
- tibbon 16y ago
  I didn't know anyone was still offerring unlimited 3G data. Probably will be fading away soon like AT&T and Verizon's unlimited plans.
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    It has only become unlimited recently. It was capped at 5GB/month. I am still in shock.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  Wow. I, too, own a Virgin Mobile MiFi 2200 (also purchased from BestBuy). http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/ http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/ I purchased a unit about 4 months ago. Thank you scottw for the info. When I purchased the unit, there was no umlimited option. The most you could purchase was 5GB at a time. If you did not use all 5GB, tough luck, it would not rollover, expiring after 30 days. So, $40/month, unlimited is quite impressive WITH NO CONTRACT. Also the Mifi 2200 supports multiple devices simultaneously, so you can use your iPad and your girlfriend can use her MBP. Rather interesting, considering Verizon charges an additional monthly fee for their smartphones to bridge via wifi (even if you already pay for a smartphone data plan). This is also one of the few devices/services that can provide internet access using only cash (no cc associated with the account). I highly recommend the Mifi2200.
DougWebb 16y ago
My wife had a MiFi for her Macbook, until she went to visit her family in Canada for a weekend. As far as we can tell, the Macbook decided to update itself in the hotel while she was out and had left the MiFi on. With the indicator light design on the MiFi it's not simple to tell the difference between "I'm charging" and "I'm eating up all of your allowed bandwidth at roaming rates". The result was an almost $900 bill for data roaming charges. I don't think we even exceeded her 2GB/month allowance, at least not by much. Apparently, in Verizon's view, Canada is such a technologically backward nation that it costs an order of magnitude more to send data over their maple-syrup-soaked drunken-beaver-operated telecommunications system than it does here in the US. There was no recourse; Verizon doesn't care why the bandwidth was used, even if it was unintentional. We canceled the contract. EDIT: Contrasting point: for my Android, Verizon gives me unlimited data for $45/month. I use at least 1GB/month, and that's without watching videos or doing any other data-intensive stuff that I'd probably want to do on an iPad. (I don't pay the extra $20/month they want for tethering. I've found the Android is sufficient for my mobile computing needs.)
- borisk 16y ago
  Verizon is often acting like an evil megacorp, but in this case I'd say it's all your wife fault. The roaming rates are in the contract. Canadian telecoms may be charging Verizon a lot to use their networks.
  - TheAmazingIdiot 16y ago
    When the said contract is over 25 pages long with legalese as the only language how can you expect anyone to know what they're saying? And cell companies know that if they make these terms unintelligible, they make more money.
    - borisk 16y ago
      How? With a little bit of effort. Spend 5 min. reading online reviews of the service before singing. Check the roaming rates before going to Canada, it takes 1 min. to find and read http://b2b.vzw.com/international/naroaming.htm http://b2b.vzw.com/international/naroaming.htm
kloncks 16y ago
Verizon working with Apple: Does this just validate all those rumors of an iPhone next month on Verizon?
- Lewisham 16y ago
  I think it's safe to assume that. It shows that Apple and Verizon don't have as terrible a blood feud as some had thought. In fact, the offer looks somewhat... desperate. It's blatantly anti-consumer (lug around a MiFi and pay for the privilege!) in comparison to the AT&T offering. I wonder if it's not part of some contractual agreement from Apple: "Alright, we'll give you the iPhone, but we want iPads in Verizon stores this holiday season, and [we don't have the CDMA chips ready yet/don't want to announce we have CDMA chips yet]. What are you going to do?"
  - kloncks 16y ago
    It's especially interesting as we're now hearing rumors of AT&T's relationship with Apple souring a bit.
  - pchristensen 16y ago
    It's hardly anti-consumer. For the price of a 3G iPad, you get an equivalent Wi-Fi only iPad and a MiFi that all your other devices can use. I would have bought this in a heartbeat over my 3G if it had been available in April.
    - fredleblanc 16y ago
      Was this option not available? It seems like the only convenience is the bundling here, or were Mifis never without contract before?
      - pchristensen 16y ago
        IIRC you could buy a no-contract MiFi but it was much more expensive.
      - 16y ago
callmeed 16y ago
So they're tacking on $130 to the price of the iPad to cover the device? I like my setup much better ... I have the iPad WiFi coupled with Virgin's MiFi which is $150 + $40/mo for unlimited bandwidth (on Sprint's network). No worries about overages, works great everywhere I've been and you don't even pay for months you don't use it. Most Best Buy stores have them. http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/mifi-2200.html http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/mifi-2200.ht...
yan 16y ago
".. MiFi 2200 is small enough to fit in a pocket and allows customers to create a personal Wi-Fi cloud capable of sharing the high-speed Internet .. " Wait, what?

36 points by nirmal 16y ago

lukev 16y ago

1GB per month for $20? What is this, 2001? Of course, you just know all the Dogberts at Verizon are wagging their tails over collecting those juicy overage fees.

exit 16y ago
why is wireless data so bloody expensive? what are verizons margins on $20/1GB?
- DougWebb 16y ago
  About $20/GB.
  - exit 16y ago
    do share holders have any right to know the actual figure?
    - tibbon 16y ago
      Unless you've got a board seat, probably not. You get what's in their public disclosure for investors and that's about it.
- jws 16y ago
  Per wikipedia://GSM… GSM has used a variety of voice codecs to squeeze 3.1 kHz audio into between 6.5 and 13 kbit/s. So that is between 100k and 200k bytes per minute of speech. That gigabyte is the same radio load as 10000 minutes of talk time. Where does one get 10000 minutes of talk time for only $20? I think the question is Why is wireless voice so bloody expensive‽
  - danilocampos 16y ago
    (Pedantic) Verizon uses CDMA, not GSM, but the question is still a fair one. I wonder how the numbers change for CDMA, if at all.
    - jws 16y ago
      Wikipedia says CDMA uses 3 rates, 8.5kbps, 4kbps, and 0.8kbs at the sender's choosing. It averages about 6kbps, so the numbers are about the same. There are improved codecs, but I can't tell if they are in use. The 0.8kbps is just for encoding background noise when the person is not talking.
  - sparky 16y ago
    Obviously this doesn't even begin to explain it, but the realtime/quality-of-service requirements of voice are much more rigid, so it makes sense that voice would cost the carrier more per-bit than data. But still...
- pchristensen 16y ago
  That's called "monopoly rent". Normally competition drives prices down, but wireless data provision is an expensive and legally difficult business to get into. Is anybody selling 3G data for appreciably less? AT&T iPad rates are $15 for 250MB, $25 for 2GB.
  - mike-cardwell 16y ago
    In the UK, on a non contract pay as you go service, I give T-Mobile £20 once every 6 months, and in exchange for that, they give me 1GB of 3G data per month.
  - ahizzle 16y ago
    Just be glad you guys don't live in Canada (at least not when it comes to wireless data ;). One of the larger providers up here, Telus, charges $30/month for 500mb and $65/mo for 5 gigs... and that's all ON TOP of whatever your actual wireless plan is. Yick.

jws 16y ago

The bundle is costing about $130 more than the iPad, plus whatever sliver of profit they get on the iPad wholesale. No risk taken by Verizon, no need for a contract.

arethuza 16y ago

I have an iPad and a MiFi from 3 and it's a good combination for occasional 3G access (most of the locations I use my iPad at have WiFi). The MiFi with 8GB PAYG was about £70 whereas a 3G capable iPad is £100 more than the WiFi models here in the UK - also means I can have other devices (laptops/ipod) on the MiFi when required. [Edit: I would never get a MiFi on contract - PAYG works fine with no risk of silly bills]

callumjones 16y ago
Yes but the £100 is a one off cost.
- arethuza 16y ago
  The £70 for the MiFi is a one off cost - you still have to pay for the data in both cases.

scottw 16y ago

You can get the same MiFi 2200 device from Virgin Mobile (my local BestBuy carries them) which uses Sprint's 3G network for $40/month unlimited bandwidth and no contract. I bought one last month for a road trip and love it.

bradleyland 16y ago
Heh. They're out of stock. Go figure. http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/broadband2go.html http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/broadband2go... That's an awesome deal though. When they come available again, I'm jumping on that.
- ydant 16y ago
  Like the grandparent said, BestBuy has them. I asked them specifically on Twitter and they responded: > Your best bet to purchase a MiFi right now would be going to one of our retailers- @BestBuy, @RadioShack, @Target I went to BestBuy and walked out with one. And, unlike my experiences trying to set my iPad up on AT&T, it lets you set up the MiFi even if you don't have any other source of internet access. I'm not entirely overjoyed with the speeds, but the $40 for unlimited with no contract (they explicitly say you can sign up when you need it, cancel when you don't) is a good price.
tibbon 16y ago
I didn't know anyone was still offerring unlimited 3G data. Probably will be fading away soon like AT&T and Verizon's unlimited plans.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  It has only become unlimited recently. It was capped at 5GB/month. I am still in shock.
chopsueyar 16y ago
Wow. I, too, own a Virgin Mobile MiFi 2200 (also purchased from BestBuy). http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/ http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/ I purchased a unit about 4 months ago. Thank you scottw for the info. When I purchased the unit, there was no umlimited option. The most you could purchase was 5GB at a time. If you did not use all 5GB, tough luck, it would not rollover, expiring after 30 days. So, $40/month, unlimited is quite impressive WITH NO CONTRACT. Also the Mifi 2200 supports multiple devices simultaneously, so you can use your iPad and your girlfriend can use her MBP. Rather interesting, considering Verizon charges an additional monthly fee for their smartphones to bridge via wifi (even if you already pay for a smartphone data plan). This is also one of the few devices/services that can provide internet access using only cash (no cc associated with the account). I highly recommend the Mifi2200.

DougWebb 16y ago

My wife had a MiFi for her Macbook, until she went to visit her family in Canada for a weekend. As far as we can tell, the Macbook decided to update itself in the hotel while she was out and had left the MiFi on. With the indicator light design on the MiFi it's not simple to tell the difference between "I'm charging" and "I'm eating up all of your allowed bandwidth at roaming rates". The result was an almost $900 bill for data roaming charges. I don't think we even exceeded her 2GB/month allowance, at least not by much. Apparently, in Verizon's view, Canada is such a technologically backward nation that it costs an order of magnitude more to send data over their maple-syrup-soaked drunken-beaver-operated telecommunications system than it does here in the US. There was no recourse; Verizon doesn't care why the bandwidth was used, even if it was unintentional. We canceled the contract. EDIT: Contrasting point: for my Android, Verizon gives me unlimited data for $45/month. I use at least 1GB/month, and that's without watching videos or doing any other data-intensive stuff that I'd probably want to do on an iPad. (I don't pay the extra $20/month they want for tethering. I've found the Android is sufficient for my mobile computing needs.)

borisk 16y ago
Verizon is often acting like an evil megacorp, but in this case I'd say it's all your wife fault. The roaming rates are in the contract. Canadian telecoms may be charging Verizon a lot to use their networks.
- TheAmazingIdiot 16y ago
  When the said contract is over 25 pages long with legalese as the only language how can you expect anyone to know what they're saying? And cell companies know that if they make these terms unintelligible, they make more money.
  - borisk 16y ago
    How? With a little bit of effort. Spend 5 min. reading online reviews of the service before singing. Check the roaming rates before going to Canada, it takes 1 min. to find and read http://b2b.vzw.com/international/naroaming.htm http://b2b.vzw.com/international/naroaming.htm

kloncks 16y ago

Verizon working with Apple: Does this just validate all those rumors of an iPhone next month on Verizon?

Lewisham 16y ago
I think it's safe to assume that. It shows that Apple and Verizon don't have as terrible a blood feud as some had thought. In fact, the offer looks somewhat... desperate. It's blatantly anti-consumer (lug around a MiFi and pay for the privilege!) in comparison to the AT&T offering. I wonder if it's not part of some contractual agreement from Apple: "Alright, we'll give you the iPhone, but we want iPads in Verizon stores this holiday season, and [we don't have the CDMA chips ready yet/don't want to announce we have CDMA chips yet]. What are you going to do?"
- kloncks 16y ago
  It's especially interesting as we're now hearing rumors of AT&T's relationship with Apple souring a bit.
- pchristensen 16y ago
  It's hardly anti-consumer. For the price of a 3G iPad, you get an equivalent Wi-Fi only iPad and a MiFi that all your other devices can use. I would have bought this in a heartbeat over my 3G if it had been available in April.
  - fredleblanc 16y ago
    Was this option not available? It seems like the only convenience is the bundling here, or were Mifis never without contract before?
    - pchristensen 16y ago
      IIRC you could buy a no-contract MiFi but it was much more expensive.
    - 16y ago

callmeed 16y ago

So they're tacking on $130 to the price of the iPad to cover the device? I like my setup much better ... I have the iPad WiFi coupled with Virgin's MiFi which is $150 + $40/mo for unlimited bandwidth (on Sprint's network). No worries about overages, works great everywhere I've been and you don't even pay for months you don't use it. Most Best Buy stores have them. http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/mifi-2200.html http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/mifi-2200.ht...

yan 16y ago

".. MiFi 2200 is small enough to fit in a pocket and allows customers to create a personal Wi-Fi cloud capable of sharing the high-speed Internet .. " Wait, what?