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>If you'd put me in the living conditions lived their whole lives, I'd be waaay less tame then they were. Oh please. This is exactly the same sort of claptrap

>If you'd put me in the living conditions lived their whole lives, I'd be waaay less tame then they were. Oh please. This is exactly the same sort of claptrap Kanye West was on, and Ta-Nehisi Coates already pointed out how dumb and ahistorical it was: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/im-not-black-im-kanye/559763/ https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/im...

oblio 8y ago
Well, maybe not me personally. But look at the recent violences in Chemnitz, Germany. The trigger is minor compared to stuff in the past. And you sent me a link to a 20k+ word article... TL;DR?
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Well, maybe not me personally. But look at the recent violences in Chemnitz, Germany. The trigger is minor compared to stuff in the past. What's at stake for participating is even more minor, so much more so that's there's no comparison.... Here's a (far from comprehensive) list of revolts in France, starting from the 13th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... And even this is so lacking (it's not even 1/100 of the documented revolts) that it manages to miss the whole Paris Commune, a huge revolt that shook France and had tons of casualties...
  - etiennemarcel 8y ago
    The 1830 revolution is also missing, or the revolt against the 1851 coup... Yet minor incidents from last year protests are on the list.
- naravara 8y ago
  >The trigger is minor compared to stuff in the past You have a view of history that is whatever the opposite of rose tinted glasses are. For one thing, the inciting incidents are rarely an important part of the story. By that logic, India blew up in 1857 over unfounded rumors of their musket cartridges being greased with animal fat. For another thing, people in the past had different values and priorities than you do and they likely found worth and pleasure in stuff that modern consumerists from a capitalist economy do not and vice-versa. You assume your value systems are universal, but this is just presentism and cultural chauvinism at work. You’re not looking at the stuff they would have found offensive, you’re focused on the stuff that motivates you. That’s not how to do any analysis. >And you sent me a link to a 20k+ word article... TL;DR? It’s a detailed and nuanced article that is exactly as long as it needs to be. There can be no TL;DR that doesn’t do violence to the argument. But in general, Kanye would have happily been a slave, because he’s a docile sheep who only thinks he’s empowered due to his celebrity and power, but if you took those away he’d be just like anyone else. And also, plenty of people did rebel but they died in anonymity or had it whipped out of them. Most of the small acts of rebellion went unnoticed or stayed under the radar

oblio 8y ago

Well, maybe not me personally. But look at the recent violences in Chemnitz, Germany. The trigger is minor compared to stuff in the past. And you sent me a link to a 20k+ word article... TL;DR?

coldtea 8y ago
>Well, maybe not me personally. But look at the recent violences in Chemnitz, Germany. The trigger is minor compared to stuff in the past. What's at stake for participating is even more minor, so much more so that's there's no comparison.... Here's a (far from comprehensive) list of revolts in France, starting from the 13th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... And even this is so lacking (it's not even 1/100 of the documented revolts) that it manages to miss the whole Paris Commune, a huge revolt that shook France and had tons of casualties...
- etiennemarcel 8y ago
  The 1830 revolution is also missing, or the revolt against the 1851 coup... Yet minor incidents from last year protests are on the list.
naravara 8y ago
>The trigger is minor compared to stuff in the past You have a view of history that is whatever the opposite of rose tinted glasses are. For one thing, the inciting incidents are rarely an important part of the story. By that logic, India blew up in 1857 over unfounded rumors of their musket cartridges being greased with animal fat. For another thing, people in the past had different values and priorities than you do and they likely found worth and pleasure in stuff that modern consumerists from a capitalist economy do not and vice-versa. You assume your value systems are universal, but this is just presentism and cultural chauvinism at work. You’re not looking at the stuff they would have found offensive, you’re focused on the stuff that motivates you. That’s not how to do any analysis. >And you sent me a link to a 20k+ word article... TL;DR? It’s a detailed and nuanced article that is exactly as long as it needs to be. There can be no TL;DR that doesn’t do violence to the argument. But in general, Kanye would have happily been a slave, because he’s a docile sheep who only thinks he’s empowered due to his celebrity and power, but if you took those away he’d be just like anyone else. And also, plenty of people did rebel but they died in anonymity or had it whipped out of them. Most of the small acts of rebellion went unnoticed or stayed under the radar