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Recent imperialist ventures - Iraq comes to mind - where the US and its allies overthrew the local dictator - have led to a worse mess. Apples and oranges. We

Recent imperialist ventures - Iraq comes to mind - where the US and its allies overthrew the local dictator - have led to a worse mess. Apples and oranges. We overthrew the dictator, but we didn't conquer the country--at least, not overtly, the way an empire would. A full-on conquest, made by a federalized empire with experience of conquest, would be entirely different. (Not necessarily better, but different enough that you can't easily extrapolate.)

zeemonkee 16y ago
> at least, not overtly, the way an empire would Not overtly ? Must have slept through shock and awe. EDIT: if I were to compare the invasion of Iraq to anything it would be the Spanish-American War and the subsequent invasion and occupation of the Philippines (Kipling's "White Man's Burden" was written as a warning to the Americans). A spurious "cause" whipped up by media frenzy, followed by a long guerilla war much criticised at home and abroad.
- metageek 16y ago
  >Not overtly ? Must have slept through shock and awe. Invasion != conquest. The US has not taken Iraq as its territory, or claimed the right to control its government. An empire would. I said "not overtly" because there probably is a case to be made that we have actually taken control, at least to some degree, while pretending not to. Not the same thing, though--not least because, if we had conquered them, we'd be responsible for them.
fragmede 16y ago
There was a TED talk that touched on this. There would have been a different set of expectations if the invasion plan originally called for 4 or 5 decades of occupation. The armed forces for invasion consisting of trigger happy 18 year olds would be separate from the occupying force full of lifers, 40 year old beat cops from NYC who planned to live in Iraq for a decade.

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Recent imperialist ventures - Iraq comes to mind - where the US and its allies overthrew the local dictator - have led to a worse mess. Apples and oranges. We

by metageek 16y ago

zeemonkee 16y ago
> at least, not overtly, the way an empire would Not overtly ? Must have slept through shock and awe. EDIT: if I were to compare the invasion of Iraq to anything it would be the Spanish-American War and the subsequent invasion and occupation of the Philippines (Kipling's "White Man's Burden" was written as a warning to the Americans). A spurious "cause" whipped up by media frenzy, followed by a long guerilla war much criticised at home and abroad.
- metageek 16y ago
  >Not overtly ? Must have slept through shock and awe. Invasion != conquest. The US has not taken Iraq as its territory, or claimed the right to control its government. An empire would. I said "not overtly" because there probably is a case to be made that we have actually taken control, at least to some degree, while pretending not to. Not the same thing, though--not least because, if we had conquered them, we'd be responsible for them.
fragmede 16y ago
There was a TED talk that touched on this. There would have been a different set of expectations if the invasion plan originally called for 4 or 5 decades of occupation. The armed forces for invasion consisting of trigger happy 18 year olds would be separate from the occupying force full of lifers, 40 year old beat cops from NYC who planned to live in Iraq for a decade.