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> Remember, lights are just as much about being seen as being able to see I cannot emphasis this enough. It's terrible the amount of drivers who think "I can s

> Remember, lights are just as much about being seen as being able to see I cannot emphasis this enough. It's terrible the amount of drivers who think "I can see fine, I don't need to put on my headlights". Whenever I'm driving on open roads (100 km/h areas) I'll always turn my headlights on. Like aeroplanes, I think that anything on the road should have lights on it for visibility.

cube2222 8y ago
It's actually mandatory in most (if not all?) of the EU. You must have your headlights on at all times.
- ygra 8y ago
  Motorcycles maybe, cars have (by now) mandatory daytime running lights, but at least in Germany for older cars it's not mandatory to have lights on during daytime.
  - _pmf_ 8y ago
    I remember that one country reverted its decision for mandatory daytime light for cars because it decreased visibility of motorbikes (for which daytime lights were mandatory).
    - lloeki 8y ago
      That would be France. The idea is indeed to increase visibility of the most vulnerable vehicles. Motorbike riders behave differently than car drivers, hence it is critically important to be able to distinguish them easily in traffic (we downright suck at evaluating movements of light sources compared to solid objects). This is also a factor as to why always-on daylights are mandatorily placed lower than headlights.
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    Worse, some of the daytime running "lights" are only visible from about 5 m directly in front of the car - plus on most cars, the "daytime lights" setting only switches front lights, leaving the back entirely off. That's a cure worse than the disease.
- IneffablePigeon 8y ago
  I think it's mandatory that new cars have always-on lights, rather than being mandatory to turn on your lights all the time (if you've got an older vehicle). That's how it is in the UK, anyway.
  - tolien 8y ago
    Mandatory for cars type-approved after the 7th of February 2011 [1], not all new cars. Some manufacturers were selling models that were type-approved before that date for years later (the Peugeot 3008 is one example), and therefore weren’t required to have DRLs. 1: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-1394_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-1394_en.htm
- usrusr 8y ago
  Definitely not all of them, Austria even rolled back because it removed the visibility advantage of motorcycles and because daytime running lights are an arms race that some legal road users cannot keep up with. It makes those with no light (or with significantly weaker lights) practically invisible because drivers will inevitably reduce attention to the common case.
  - pc86 8y ago
    If your car cannot be operated legally, it should not be operated. You don't need automatic DRLs, you can always just turn your lights on.
    - taejo 8y ago
      I think usrusr is referring to non-car road users. Bicycles and motorbikes need to stand out from cars, but can't keep up with them in a lighting arms race due to power and weight.
      - usrusr 8y ago
        And ox-carts. And walkers. And all kinds of other long tail surprises. The distinction between limited access roads and the regular kind exists for a reason.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dsego 8y ago
  In Croatia it's only during winter time for cars.
  - jtakkala 8y ago
    The EU has required DRL's on all new cars since 2011. As an EU member state this applies to Croatia too.
    - dsego 8y ago
      That may be so, but on older cars you don't have to turn on your low beams when it is daylight savings time.
beepbeepbeep1 8y ago
There was a lot of debate about this when daylight running lights where made mandatory on all new motorcycles in the EU. Most of it was on the lines of if every vehicle had lights on you would no longer stand out, you are just another light which is also harder to judge distance in the mirror. Where as if yo have lights on but cars don't you are more likely to stand out for thr fact there's less motorcycles so not as many lights to blend in to the background. In the AU everyone genrally has full beams on regardless, horrible experince driving at night.
- heavenlyblue 8y ago
  They are not there to stand out, they are there for you to see an object that exists specifically at a point x. Are you instead proposing the situation where half of the drivers are invisible and the other half is (probably) safe? Just as much as you shouldn't be driving into a motorcycle you should probably not drive into a car. All in all: you're saying is a horrible experience, but you're not giving any better solutions.
  - icc97 8y ago
    No you both dim your lights when there's an oncoming car.
    - heavenlyblue 8y ago
      I don't think you understand what's being discussed here. Some countries force their car drivers to always have their lights on. The fact that some idiots think it's the same as driving with the high beams on all the time is absolutely different.
- icc97 8y ago
  > if every vehicle had lights on you would no longer stand out From reading this article I don't think that applies. It's typically only one car or bicycle that needs contrast against the background so that you don't miss them. It's not about trying to pick out one car amongst a sea of other cars. Even then as long as you're aware there's something there you can avoid the psychological problem of assuming nothing is there.
grecy 8y ago
In Canada all vehicles since 1989 must have Daytime Running Lights. They come on as soon as you put the car in gear and take off the e-break. It's brilliant.
exDM69 8y ago
Having lights on is good advice, especially since you tend not to notice the evening getting darker gradually. If you've been outside since daytime, by the time you realize to turn on the lights it's already quite dark. In my country, all new cars need to be equipped with daytime lights and even before that rule, using lights at all hours has been mandatory. However, this advice is a bit questionable: "Flashing LEDs (front and rear) are especially effective for cyclists as they create contrast and the on-off flashing attracts the peripheral vision in the same manner that movement does." Flashing LEDs as your only light is really bad, because it's impossible to judge distance and speed from a flashing light in darkness. Having a flashing light on your helmet or handlebars in addition to a normal light may be beneficial but only if you have otherwise decent lighting on your bike. In fact, in my country there are regulations that require a non-blinking white light on the front, a non-blinking red light on the back and reflectors on the pedals and wheels. There are actually quite strict rules where and how the lights should be placed. Unfortunately not everyone complies with these regulations, and the worst offenders I see are children. I've seen kids riding bikes dangerously on the roads (and had closer calls than I'd like to) on otherwise affluent neighborhoods. Their parents (and themselves!) had completely neglected to put lights on their bikes (or check that they work, have batteries, etc).
soneil 8y ago
This is always my pet peeve. If there's a car coming, and I'm trying to cross, I can see there's a car coming. Simple. But if there's 10 cars coming, and most of them have their lights on - the one that doesn't looks like a gap. I don't care if you need your lights on or not. If >50% of traffic have their lights on, I need your lights on too.
kozak 8y ago
I have a car without DRL, and I always have my headlights on. However, in the daylight (the "be seen" mode), I always turn my headlight adjustment switch all the way down to prevent unnecessary glare for other drivers.
mkj 8y ago
I reckon a dynamo hub and good always-on lights is perhaps the best cycling purchase I've made for my commuter bike. No faffing around with charging batteries and blinking lights, just leave it go all the time. ("perhaps" because mudguards are pretty useful too). b&m lights, sensible ones that have a backreflector so you don't get horrible specular lights shining in everyone's eyes.
cafard 8y ago
Long ago, running as twilight came on, I noticed something odd. Those driving east had the sun behind them, and were more visible, yet they had their lights on because they were facing a darker sky. Those driving west were less visible against the darkening background, yet they faced a lighter sky and did not turn on their lights.
- lloeki 8y ago
  Turns out I always turn lights on in such HDR situations producing low-contrast areas: if you have a hard time seeing those in front of you, those behind you have a hard time seeing you. Same goes for haphazard tree shades, even though it looks like it's bright enough, the alternating areas of bright and dark makes you difficult to see. Also, I have excellent eyesight which biases me into what is seeable and what is not, but I try to take into account those who don't, and act accordingly.

cube2222 8y ago

It's actually mandatory in most (if not all?) of the EU. You must have your headlights on at all times.

ygra 8y ago
Motorcycles maybe, cars have (by now) mandatory daytime running lights, but at least in Germany for older cars it's not mandatory to have lights on during daytime.
- _pmf_ 8y ago
  I remember that one country reverted its decision for mandatory daytime light for cars because it decreased visibility of motorbikes (for which daytime lights were mandatory).
  - lloeki 8y ago
    That would be France. The idea is indeed to increase visibility of the most vulnerable vehicles. Motorbike riders behave differently than car drivers, hence it is critically important to be able to distinguish them easily in traffic (we downright suck at evaluating movements of light sources compared to solid objects). This is also a factor as to why always-on daylights are mandatorily placed lower than headlights.
- Piskvorrr 8y ago
  Worse, some of the daytime running "lights" are only visible from about 5 m directly in front of the car - plus on most cars, the "daytime lights" setting only switches front lights, leaving the back entirely off. That's a cure worse than the disease.
IneffablePigeon 8y ago
I think it's mandatory that new cars have always-on lights, rather than being mandatory to turn on your lights all the time (if you've got an older vehicle). That's how it is in the UK, anyway.
- tolien 8y ago
  Mandatory for cars type-approved after the 7th of February 2011 [1], not all new cars. Some manufacturers were selling models that were type-approved before that date for years later (the Peugeot 3008 is one example), and therefore weren’t required to have DRLs. 1: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-1394_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-1394_en.htm
usrusr 8y ago
Definitely not all of them, Austria even rolled back because it removed the visibility advantage of motorcycles and because daytime running lights are an arms race that some legal road users cannot keep up with. It makes those with no light (or with significantly weaker lights) practically invisible because drivers will inevitably reduce attention to the common case.
- pc86 8y ago
  If your car cannot be operated legally, it should not be operated. You don't need automatic DRLs, you can always just turn your lights on.
  - taejo 8y ago
    I think usrusr is referring to non-car road users. Bicycles and motorbikes need to stand out from cars, but can't keep up with them in a lighting arms race due to power and weight.
    - usrusr 8y ago
      And ox-carts. And walkers. And all kinds of other long tail surprises. The distinction between limited access roads and the regular kind exists for a reason.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dsego 8y ago
In Croatia it's only during winter time for cars.
- jtakkala 8y ago
  The EU has required DRL's on all new cars since 2011. As an EU member state this applies to Croatia too.
  - dsego 8y ago
    That may be so, but on older cars you don't have to turn on your low beams when it is daylight savings time.

beepbeepbeep1 8y ago

There was a lot of debate about this when daylight running lights where made mandatory on all new motorcycles in the EU. Most of it was on the lines of if every vehicle had lights on you would no longer stand out, you are just another light which is also harder to judge distance in the mirror. Where as if yo have lights on but cars don't you are more likely to stand out for thr fact there's less motorcycles so not as many lights to blend in to the background. In the AU everyone genrally has full beams on regardless, horrible experince driving at night.

heavenlyblue 8y ago
They are not there to stand out, they are there for you to see an object that exists specifically at a point x. Are you instead proposing the situation where half of the drivers are invisible and the other half is (probably) safe? Just as much as you shouldn't be driving into a motorcycle you should probably not drive into a car. All in all: you're saying is a horrible experience, but you're not giving any better solutions.
- icc97 8y ago
  No you both dim your lights when there's an oncoming car.
  - heavenlyblue 8y ago
    I don't think you understand what's being discussed here. Some countries force their car drivers to always have their lights on. The fact that some idiots think it's the same as driving with the high beams on all the time is absolutely different.
icc97 8y ago
> if every vehicle had lights on you would no longer stand out From reading this article I don't think that applies. It's typically only one car or bicycle that needs contrast against the background so that you don't miss them. It's not about trying to pick out one car amongst a sea of other cars. Even then as long as you're aware there's something there you can avoid the psychological problem of assuming nothing is there.

grecy 8y ago

In Canada all vehicles since 1989 must have Daytime Running Lights. They come on as soon as you put the car in gear and take off the e-break. It's brilliant.

exDM69 8y ago

Having lights on is good advice, especially since you tend not to notice the evening getting darker gradually. If you've been outside since daytime, by the time you realize to turn on the lights it's already quite dark. In my country, all new cars need to be equipped with daytime lights and even before that rule, using lights at all hours has been mandatory. However, this advice is a bit questionable: "Flashing LEDs (front and rear) are especially effective for cyclists as they create contrast and the on-off flashing attracts the peripheral vision in the same manner that movement does." Flashing LEDs as your only light is really bad, because it's impossible to judge distance and speed from a flashing light in darkness. Having a flashing light on your helmet or handlebars in addition to a normal light may be beneficial but only if you have otherwise decent lighting on your bike. In fact, in my country there are regulations that require a non-blinking white light on the front, a non-blinking red light on the back and reflectors on the pedals and wheels. There are actually quite strict rules where and how the lights should be placed. Unfortunately not everyone complies with these regulations, and the worst offenders I see are children. I've seen kids riding bikes dangerously on the roads (and had closer calls than I'd like to) on otherwise affluent neighborhoods. Their parents (and themselves!) had completely neglected to put lights on their bikes (or check that they work, have batteries, etc).

soneil 8y ago

This is always my pet peeve. If there's a car coming, and I'm trying to cross, I can see there's a car coming. Simple. But if there's 10 cars coming, and most of them have their lights on - the one that doesn't looks like a gap. I don't care if you need your lights on or not. If >50% of traffic have their lights on, I need your lights on too.

kozak 8y ago

I have a car without DRL, and I always have my headlights on. However, in the daylight (the "be seen" mode), I always turn my headlight adjustment switch all the way down to prevent unnecessary glare for other drivers.

mkj 8y ago

I reckon a dynamo hub and good always-on lights is perhaps the best cycling purchase I've made for my commuter bike. No faffing around with charging batteries and blinking lights, just leave it go all the time. ("perhaps" because mudguards are pretty useful too). b&m lights, sensible ones that have a backreflector so you don't get horrible specular lights shining in everyone's eyes.

cafard 8y ago

Long ago, running as twilight came on, I noticed something odd. Those driving east had the sun behind them, and were more visible, yet they had their lights on because they were facing a darker sky. Those driving west were less visible against the darkening background, yet they faced a lighter sky and did not turn on their lights.

lloeki 8y ago
Turns out I always turn lights on in such HDR situations producing low-contrast areas: if you have a hard time seeing those in front of you, those behind you have a hard time seeing you. Same goes for haphazard tree shades, even though it looks like it's bright enough, the alternating areas of bright and dark makes you difficult to see. Also, I have excellent eyesight which biases me into what is seeable and what is not, but I try to take into account those who don't, and act accordingly.