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This is gorgeous, and a great topic. No matter what field you're working in, understanding databases is extraordinarily valuable...and SQL is among the longest

This is gorgeous, and a great topic. No matter what field you're working in, understanding databases is extraordinarily valuable...and SQL is among the longest lasting techs I've ever learned (e.g. name another programming language that is as valuable today as it was 20 years ago, if not moreso). Even with the rise of NoSQL databases, I suspect we'll all still need to know a little SQL in another 20 years (and it was already more than 20 years old when I first encountered it in the 90s). And, even if not the same language, conceptually understanding how to query data is probably timeless.

Hendrikto 8y ago
> name another programming language that is as valuable today as it was 20 years ago, if not moreso * C * Python * Java 20 years ago was 1998.
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  C I agree with. But Java and Python? Both languages have changed beyond recognition over the past 20 years. A programmer who hasn't touched either for 20 years would probably be overwhelmed. Another difference is that even though SQL has changed, there isn't much you need to know outside of the DBMS you are using. With Java and Python on the other hand, you need to keep up with the changing library landscape to stay relevant.
  - setr 8y ago
    >With Java and Python on the other hand, you need to keep up with the changing library landscape to stay relevant. For C, its just library management is troublesome enough that you end up writing your own ;)
  - kbenson 8y ago
    Perl. And no, that's not just a factor of its current popularity, as the language has evolved and has regular releases. Perl has amazing backwards compatibility, but has also solidified on much better coding practices and libraries in the last 20 years. You can still run that code from 20 years ago with a new interpreter and it will be safer and faster, or you can choose a more modern style or library and it will work just as well. And to forestall anyone trying to bring up Perl 6 as a counterargument, unless you actually know what it is and how it interacts with Perl 5 and the community, I doubt the argument is actually saying what you think...
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  Sure, and I still use Perl as my primary language, just as I did 20 years ago, with some forays into other languages (like Python and C) along the way. But, this is survivor bias (one could argue SQL is also benefiting from survivor bias, though SQL was the dominant data query language then and it is the dominant data query language today, whereas one could argue only C was/is dominant in its space at both points in history). But, where's Pascal, Visual Basic (or Basic of any sort), Tcl, etc.? There's dozens of other languages that came and went, including data-oriented languages. All of which were popular during the 90s, and effectively gone now. And, only C among your examples is actually exhibiting the same kind of longevity (SQL is more than 40 years old, so it predates Python, Java, Perl, etc. by quite a lot)...I probably should have put the starting point for this thought experiment at 30+ years ago, but 20 years ago is when I first started using SQL, so it's what I used, which isn't really useful. Who cares when I learned the value of SQL, when it's an industry-wide phenomenon? My point wasn't that one can't name languages with staying power. There are several. But, SQL is still special, I think. It's almost universally needed. If you go to work in a Node or Go shop today, you're probably still gonna need to know some SQL, just like if you went to work in a Python or Perl or Java shop in the 90s.
- collinmanderson 8y ago
  JavaScript is probably also more valuable than it was in 1998. Still pretty much backwards compatible, too.
- s_dev 8y ago
  Pretty sure SQL has been around far longer than either Java or Python.
corpMaverick 8y ago
To your point. I learned SQL almost 30 years ago. Along Unix, vi, Perl it is a skill that I still use often. It is one of the best learning investments that I ever made.
dragonwriter 8y ago
>e.g. name another programming language that is as valuable today as it was 20 years ago, if not moreso If we include non-Turing-complete languages as “programming languages”, which we must for SQL to get that 20-year label since SQL wasn't Turing-complete until recursive CTEs were part of the language, then XML. Also, even without that caveat, candidates include Bash, C, C++, Objective-C, Perl, elisp, Java, JavaScript, MATLAB, VHDL, and others. Some, while still being as useful as they were 20 years ago, are down from a peak in the intervening period, but arguably that's true of SQL, as well.

Hendrikto 8y ago

> name another programming language that is as valuable today as it was 20 years ago, if not moreso * C * Python * Java 20 years ago was 1998.

Cyph0n 8y ago
C I agree with. But Java and Python? Both languages have changed beyond recognition over the past 20 years. A programmer who hasn't touched either for 20 years would probably be overwhelmed. Another difference is that even though SQL has changed, there isn't much you need to know outside of the DBMS you are using. With Java and Python on the other hand, you need to keep up with the changing library landscape to stay relevant.
- setr 8y ago
  >With Java and Python on the other hand, you need to keep up with the changing library landscape to stay relevant. For C, its just library management is troublesome enough that you end up writing your own ;)
- kbenson 8y ago
  Perl. And no, that's not just a factor of its current popularity, as the language has evolved and has regular releases. Perl has amazing backwards compatibility, but has also solidified on much better coding practices and libraries in the last 20 years. You can still run that code from 20 years ago with a new interpreter and it will be safer and faster, or you can choose a more modern style or library and it will work just as well. And to forestall anyone trying to bring up Perl 6 as a counterargument, unless you actually know what it is and how it interacts with Perl 5 and the community, I doubt the argument is actually saying what you think...
SwellJoe 8y ago
Sure, and I still use Perl as my primary language, just as I did 20 years ago, with some forays into other languages (like Python and C) along the way. But, this is survivor bias (one could argue SQL is also benefiting from survivor bias, though SQL was the dominant data query language then and it is the dominant data query language today, whereas one could argue only C was/is dominant in its space at both points in history). But, where's Pascal, Visual Basic (or Basic of any sort), Tcl, etc.? There's dozens of other languages that came and went, including data-oriented languages. All of which were popular during the 90s, and effectively gone now. And, only C among your examples is actually exhibiting the same kind of longevity (SQL is more than 40 years old, so it predates Python, Java, Perl, etc. by quite a lot)...I probably should have put the starting point for this thought experiment at 30+ years ago, but 20 years ago is when I first started using SQL, so it's what I used, which isn't really useful. Who cares when I learned the value of SQL, when it's an industry-wide phenomenon? My point wasn't that one can't name languages with staying power. There are several. But, SQL is still special, I think. It's almost universally needed. If you go to work in a Node or Go shop today, you're probably still gonna need to know some SQL, just like if you went to work in a Python or Perl or Java shop in the 90s.
collinmanderson 8y ago
JavaScript is probably also more valuable than it was in 1998. Still pretty much backwards compatible, too.
s_dev 8y ago
Pretty sure SQL has been around far longer than either Java or Python.

corpMaverick 8y ago

To your point. I learned SQL almost 30 years ago. Along Unix, vi, Perl it is a skill that I still use often. It is one of the best learning investments that I ever made.

dragonwriter 8y ago

>e.g. name another programming language that is as valuable today as it was 20 years ago, if not moreso If we include non-Turing-complete languages as “programming languages”, which we must for SQL to get that 20-year label since SQL wasn't Turing-complete until recursive CTEs were part of the language, then XML. Also, even without that caveat, candidates include Bash, C, C++, Objective-C, Perl, elisp, Java, JavaScript, MATLAB, VHDL, and others. Some, while still being as useful as they were 20 years ago, are down from a peak in the intervening period, but arguably that's true of SQL, as well.