9 ms·

Make plastic printed circuits with a standard laser cutter [video]

81 points by nadavami 8y ago

mdaniel 8y ago
I'm jealous of people who have such an elaborate workspace with so many toys and access to reagents. Still, it's super interesting to see all the engineering challenges that go into taking something from "works" into "work reliably"
- bacon_waffle 8y ago
  I agree, the tools available now for tinkering are mind boggling! Of course, the other component is the time to spend on learning to use the tools, and for designing stuff to make with them... With regards to chemistry - a staggering array of chemical supplies can be purchased from the hardware store, druggist, or supermarket; the trick is knowing what common name to look for, to get a particular chemical. Searching online for permutations of what you're looking for, and "household", "MSDS", or "common name" can yield some good results.
bayesian_horse 8y ago
Ingenious method!
Hasz 8y ago
What's even more interesting is that this is pretty accessible. Given fairly common equipment, at least in a hackerspace, you can make ~8 mil traces on plastic or FR4. Not only that, but you can make them in 3D and with plated vias. This dude has some absolutely jaw dropping (sputtering, scanning electron microscope, waterjet etc) videos on his channel; it's definitely worth checking out the rest of his back catalogue.
- 6nf 8y ago
  Google tells me 'mil' is some kind of abbreviation for 'thou' or thousands of an inch which means 8 mil = 0.2mm
  - gh02t 8y ago
    It's an abbreviation for "mille", same root as the "milli" in millimeter. Common in electronics for describing trace widths and pitches, even outside of the US simply because there are lots of parts laid out in whole numbers of mils. 8 mil traces on a DIY circuit board is pretty good, it's good enough to be able to do some quite fine surface mount parts.
    - grzm 8y ago
      Also common for measuring thickness for films and foils: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch#Contexts_of_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch#Contexts...
ethbro 8y ago
> [16:45] And when I was getting up to about, you know... test number 66 or whatever here, it all started to fall into place... Quotes that let you know you're doing real home science.
xt00 8y ago
One of the advantages of the way FR4 PCBs for example are made is the following: 1) you can deposit a thin layer using an electroless process 2) then now that you have a continuous conducting surface you can electoplate to make a thick layer of copper that is quite strong and durable Anyway, it would seem like with all this work he could have used the laser to define a photomask on copper clad board with some photosensitive material there, then just watch in the iron chloride solution as people have been doing for ages? 2 layer PCBs are really cheap these days and you don’t end up with vats of chemicals left over.. Anyway cool stuff, I’ve tried to do similar stuff and has always just found that paying $50 for a few PCBs is actually much more economical than this type of setup.
- mdtusz 8y ago
  The whole reason for experimenting with this was to be able to create traces on 3d printed parts - the test runs were just on rectangular coupons for ease of testing and because he printed what looks like hundreds of them.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  > 2 layer PCBs are really cheap these days and you don’t end up with vats of chemicals left over.. The problem I have is that I have to wait weeks and get a hundred PCBs when I only want one.
  - xt00 8y ago
    Yea check out pcbzone.net I’ve used a number of times for super fast boards. They are in New Zealand but you get stuff in like 3-5 days for even 4-6 layer boards for a very reasonable price. There are many companies like that now. If you are willing to spend around $50-100 for say 5 boards or less there are quite a few options for a few days of waiting.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      Unfortunately, I'm just a hobbyist and can't justify that much money. It seems to be cheap, fast, good, choose two.

81 points by nadavami 8y ago

I'm jealous of people who have such an elaborate workspace with so many toys and access to reagents. Still, it's super interesting to see all the engineering challenges that go into taking something from "works" into "work reliably"

bacon_waffle 8y ago
I agree, the tools available now for tinkering are mind boggling! Of course, the other component is the time to spend on learning to use the tools, and for designing stuff to make with them... With regards to chemistry - a staggering array of chemical supplies can be purchased from the hardware store, druggist, or supermarket; the trick is knowing what common name to look for, to get a particular chemical. Searching online for permutations of what you're looking for, and "household", "MSDS", or "common name" can yield some good results.

bayesian_horse 8y ago

Ingenious method!

Hasz 8y ago

What's even more interesting is that this is pretty accessible. Given fairly common equipment, at least in a hackerspace, you can make ~8 mil traces on plastic or FR4. Not only that, but you can make them in 3D and with plated vias. This dude has some absolutely jaw dropping (sputtering, scanning electron microscope, waterjet etc) videos on his channel; it's definitely worth checking out the rest of his back catalogue.

6nf 8y ago
Google tells me 'mil' is some kind of abbreviation for 'thou' or thousands of an inch which means 8 mil = 0.2mm
- gh02t 8y ago
  It's an abbreviation for "mille", same root as the "milli" in millimeter. Common in electronics for describing trace widths and pitches, even outside of the US simply because there are lots of parts laid out in whole numbers of mils. 8 mil traces on a DIY circuit board is pretty good, it's good enough to be able to do some quite fine surface mount parts.
  - grzm 8y ago
    Also common for measuring thickness for films and foils: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch#Contexts_of_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch#Contexts...

ethbro 8y ago

> [16:45] And when I was getting up to about, you know... test number 66 or whatever here, it all started to fall into place... Quotes that let you know you're doing real home science.

xt00 8y ago

One of the advantages of the way FR4 PCBs for example are made is the following: 1) you can deposit a thin layer using an electroless process 2) then now that you have a continuous conducting surface you can electoplate to make a thick layer of copper that is quite strong and durable Anyway, it would seem like with all this work he could have used the laser to define a photomask on copper clad board with some photosensitive material there, then just watch in the iron chloride solution as people have been doing for ages? 2 layer PCBs are really cheap these days and you don’t end up with vats of chemicals left over.. Anyway cool stuff, I’ve tried to do similar stuff and has always just found that paying $50 for a few PCBs is actually much more economical than this type of setup.

mdtusz 8y ago
The whole reason for experimenting with this was to be able to create traces on 3d printed parts - the test runs were just on rectangular coupons for ease of testing and because he printed what looks like hundreds of them.
StavrosK 8y ago
> 2 layer PCBs are really cheap these days and you don’t end up with vats of chemicals left over.. The problem I have is that I have to wait weeks and get a hundred PCBs when I only want one.
- xt00 8y ago
  Yea check out pcbzone.net I’ve used a number of times for super fast boards. They are in New Zealand but you get stuff in like 3-5 days for even 4-6 layer boards for a very reasonable price. There are many companies like that now. If you are willing to spend around $50-100 for say 5 boards or less there are quite a few options for a few days of waiting.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    Unfortunately, I'm just a hobbyist and can't justify that much money. It seems to be cheap, fast, good, choose two.