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> but why not just launch a developer line? Make it thicker, heavier, give it more battery, a keyboard with a proper amount of travel, larger keys, more keys, w

by dpark 8y ago

> but why not just launch a developer line? Make it thicker, heavier, give it more battery, a keyboard with a proper amount of travel, larger keys, more keys, whatever. Ditch the retarded touch bar. More ram. More config options. More ports. Creating a new line probably costs Apple hundreds of millions in R&D costs, to say nothing of the opportunity costs from putting some of their best hardware engineers on this project. I would imagine that Tim Cook looks at the dev market, compares to the cost, and says “no fucking way”. Of course add to that the fact that “heavy and thick” is not a plus to most software devs either. The real market is probably much smaller than you’d like to believe.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
HP, Thinkpad and Dell seem to find enough market to bother. I sincerely doubt a model variant costs hundreds of millions either, or the majority of the laptop market would be unsustainable.
- eadmund 8y ago
  > I sincerely doubt a model variant costs hundreds of millions either, or the majority of the laptop market would be unsustainable. Yeah, but the majority of the laptop market aren't doing brain-damaged things like removing ESC keys, adding pointless touchbars and designing keyboards which are beautiful to look at but which fail at actual typing. And the majority of the laptop market don't have to pay for Sir Jonathan Ive to remove all colour, ornament, affordance and delight from the design, moving as close to a featureless white rounded-rectangular prism as possible as he can for this iteration. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple have to pay an order of magnitude (or two) per model, just to end up with something which is ultimately sub-par.
- dpark 8y ago
  Thicker with more ports is not a “variant”. That’s an entirely custom housing with a different battery and possibly a different board to support the new ports. This is equivalent to the split between MacBook and MacBook Pro. Dell, HP, and Lenovo also do not do what Apple is asked to do here. You can buy a thick heavy laptop from Dell. You cannot, however, buy a slightly thicker, slightly heavier XPS 13. If you want the flagship “ultra book”, you buy the one they sell. Otherwise you buy the plastic Inspiron or whatever which is an entirely different class of product and does not feel particularly premium.
  - RaleyField 8y ago
    > Otherwise you buy the plastic Inspiron or whatever Aluminium body is now premium? How about not sacrificing cpu life for fan noise? Or repairability. Or non-soldiered on ssd? Working keyboard? Why's that not premium?
    - dpark 8y ago
      > Aluminium body is now premium? Yes. I’m not sure what it accomplishes for you to feign ignorance here. When Apple started selling aluminum laptops, it was a big deal because it made everything on the market look low quality in comparison. > How about not sacrificing cpu life for fan noise? Or repairability. Or non-soldiered on ssd? Working keyboard? Why's that not premium? Because it’s not. Noisy fan to protect the CPU seems like the opposite of premium. Putting seat covers over the leather in a Mercedes is similarly not premium, because the experience suffers, even if the end result is better durability. Non-soldered SSD? A thicker laptop for self-serve SSD swaps does not seem at all premium. Doing physical maintenance on my laptop in general does not feel premium. I expect it to work as I bought it. And yes, I would love it if I could cheap out and buy a basic laptop and upgrade it myself for half the cost, but that’s really not the premium experience. That’s the Honda Civic experience. Keyboard? Shrug. They fucked up the design. Sucks, but Rolex has probably had to do some repairs in warranty before, too.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - RaleyField 8y ago
        There are different plastics. And you came off like aluminium is the only thing that defines premium experience. For me premium experience also includes some baseline functionality. Level of keyboard noise I'm not embarrassed about. Peace of mind when I turn my laptop for repairs when I image ssd beforehand. Running my laptop at temperatures that are more reasonable for me. That's premium experience for me, not completely arbitrary 2 mm lesser thickness and pre-1888[1] precious[2] metals. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_process [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument#Aluminum_apex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument#Aluminum_a...

by dpark 8y ago

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

HP, Thinkpad and Dell seem to find enough market to bother. I sincerely doubt a model variant costs hundreds of millions either, or the majority of the laptop market would be unsustainable.

eadmund 8y ago
> I sincerely doubt a model variant costs hundreds of millions either, or the majority of the laptop market would be unsustainable. Yeah, but the majority of the laptop market aren't doing brain-damaged things like removing ESC keys, adding pointless touchbars and designing keyboards which are beautiful to look at but which fail at actual typing. And the majority of the laptop market don't have to pay for Sir Jonathan Ive to remove all colour, ornament, affordance and delight from the design, moving as close to a featureless white rounded-rectangular prism as possible as he can for this iteration. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple have to pay an order of magnitude (or two) per model, just to end up with something which is ultimately sub-par.
dpark 8y ago
Thicker with more ports is not a “variant”. That’s an entirely custom housing with a different battery and possibly a different board to support the new ports. This is equivalent to the split between MacBook and MacBook Pro. Dell, HP, and Lenovo also do not do what Apple is asked to do here. You can buy a thick heavy laptop from Dell. You cannot, however, buy a slightly thicker, slightly heavier XPS 13. If you want the flagship “ultra book”, you buy the one they sell. Otherwise you buy the plastic Inspiron or whatever which is an entirely different class of product and does not feel particularly premium.
- RaleyField 8y ago
  > Otherwise you buy the plastic Inspiron or whatever Aluminium body is now premium? How about not sacrificing cpu life for fan noise? Or repairability. Or non-soldiered on ssd? Working keyboard? Why's that not premium?
  - dpark 8y ago
    > Aluminium body is now premium? Yes. I’m not sure what it accomplishes for you to feign ignorance here. When Apple started selling aluminum laptops, it was a big deal because it made everything on the market look low quality in comparison. > How about not sacrificing cpu life for fan noise? Or repairability. Or non-soldiered on ssd? Working keyboard? Why's that not premium? Because it’s not. Noisy fan to protect the CPU seems like the opposite of premium. Putting seat covers over the leather in a Mercedes is similarly not premium, because the experience suffers, even if the end result is better durability. Non-soldered SSD? A thicker laptop for self-serve SSD swaps does not seem at all premium. Doing physical maintenance on my laptop in general does not feel premium. I expect it to work as I bought it. And yes, I would love it if I could cheap out and buy a basic laptop and upgrade it myself for half the cost, but that’s really not the premium experience. That’s the Honda Civic experience. Keyboard? Shrug. They fucked up the design. Sucks, but Rolex has probably had to do some repairs in warranty before, too.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - RaleyField 8y ago
      There are different plastics. And you came off like aluminium is the only thing that defines premium experience. For me premium experience also includes some baseline functionality. Level of keyboard noise I'm not embarrassed about. Peace of mind when I turn my laptop for repairs when I image ssd beforehand. Running my laptop at temperatures that are more reasonable for me. That's premium experience for me, not completely arbitrary 2 mm lesser thickness and pre-1888[1] precious[2] metals. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_process [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument#Aluminum_apex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument#Aluminum_a...