4 ms·

And how do you propose one goes about establishing these decentralized imperial republics? Whatever the side effects may have turned out to be, the British emp

by revorad 16y ago

And how do you propose one goes about establishing these decentralized imperial republics? Whatever the side effects may have turned out to be, the British empire certainly did not set out to "empower ordinary individuals who will create new and unforeseen technologies out of old ones." Superpowers pitying undeveloped countries and nominating themselves as Imperial rulers as the only solution to their plight sounds rather self-serving, don't you think?

cturner 16y ago
Pretty hostile response. If you're angry, then the post arethuza made is a fine example of a response. The parent to your post didn't propose going about establishing them, he was just pointing out the advantages. Whatever the side effects may have turned out to be, the British empire certainly did not set out to "empower ordinary individuals who will create new and unforeseen technologies out of old ones." Good intentions have a poor record in politics and public policy, and are probably a weak place to start to make a point.
- revorad 16y ago
  I'm sorry about the hostile tone. But honestly, it's how I felt. he was just pointing out the advantages. Maybe, but he did so without even a hint of how those advantages could be achieved in an alternate way or any mention of the disadvantages. To me, it sounded like he was implying establishing decentralized imperial republics.
  - anamax 16y ago
    > Maybe, but he did so without even a hint of how those advantages could be achieved in an alternate way He pointed out that other attempts haven't worked as well. Maybe he's wrong, or maybe there is something new that would work better, but that's a very different complaint. > or any mention of the disadvantages. he said that they existed. > To me, it sounded like he was implying establishing decentralized imperial republics. implying->recommending ? There are two ways to evaluate decentralized imperial republics, on an absolute scale and on a relative scale. On an absolute scale, they're bad. On a relative scale, they seem to work better than the alternatives. You seem to think that "they're bad" is the end of things. Unless you've got something better, it isn't.
- revorad 16y ago
  Good intentions have a poor record in politics and public policy But how else does one start? With bad intentions? If we are talking about ways to "produce healthy, growing, prosperous, safe societies", good intentions are a given. The question is how one uses available data to steer ourselves in the direction of achieving those good intentions.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 16y ago
    I suspect ignoring morality and optimizing for long term productive output is probably more effective than focusing on morality. Everything has diminishing returns but a good mix of education, healthcare, research and infrastructure spending is required to optimize long term productivity. Corruption and protected industry's are harmful so you eliminate them. A simple tax system that focuses on maximizing revenue outperforms other approaches while limiting enforcement costs. etc. PS: At some point further investment will have diminishing returns but the US is still well below that threshold with our current technology and we are constantly innovating. And a light hand reduces the tendency for revolution.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
yxhuvud 16y ago
EU would fit the bill, as long as it don't end up too federalized.
- revorad 16y ago
  Maybe, but another HUGE element which is being completely ignored here is the cultural differences. It's like doing blood transfusion before blood groups were discovered.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Yet being federalized is where the advantages lie. Culteral differences of government, language, style, currency (localized versions of the Euro), entertainment remain. How do you think culture interferes with the EU operating smoothly?
lionhearted 16y ago
> And how do you propose one goes about establishing these decentralized imperial republics? Decentralize governance, establish an intelligent government with some democratic elements if there isn't currently one, and expand internationally by taking control of areas that are grossly misgoverned. China could put Burma under better governance, for instance. Or anyone could put North Korea under better governance. > Superpowers pitying undeveloped countries and nominating themselves as Imperial rulers as the only solution to their plight sounds rather self-serving, don't you think? Well, it would have to serve a successful country for them to put lots of resources into the project. I think the more important question is, could it work? I think the answer to that is yes. People point to some wrongs done by Britain or Rome, not mentioning that many of the places that wrongs were done were much worse before going under British rule. Again, I'm not claiming it's a perfect model - just that it outperforms a lot of other models of government.

by revorad 16y ago

cturner 16y ago

Pretty hostile response. If you're angry, then the post arethuza made is a fine example of a response. The parent to your post didn't propose going about establishing them, he was just pointing out the advantages. Whatever the side effects may have turned out to be, the British empire certainly did not set out to "empower ordinary individuals who will create new and unforeseen technologies out of old ones." Good intentions have a poor record in politics and public policy, and are probably a weak place to start to make a point.

revorad 16y ago
I'm sorry about the hostile tone. But honestly, it's how I felt. he was just pointing out the advantages. Maybe, but he did so without even a hint of how those advantages could be achieved in an alternate way or any mention of the disadvantages. To me, it sounded like he was implying establishing decentralized imperial republics.
- anamax 16y ago
  > Maybe, but he did so without even a hint of how those advantages could be achieved in an alternate way He pointed out that other attempts haven't worked as well. Maybe he's wrong, or maybe there is something new that would work better, but that's a very different complaint. > or any mention of the disadvantages. he said that they existed. > To me, it sounded like he was implying establishing decentralized imperial republics. implying->recommending ? There are two ways to evaluate decentralized imperial republics, on an absolute scale and on a relative scale. On an absolute scale, they're bad. On a relative scale, they seem to work better than the alternatives. You seem to think that "they're bad" is the end of things. Unless you've got something better, it isn't.
revorad 16y ago
Good intentions have a poor record in politics and public policy But how else does one start? With bad intentions? If we are talking about ways to "produce healthy, growing, prosperous, safe societies", good intentions are a given. The question is how one uses available data to steer ourselves in the direction of achieving those good intentions.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 16y ago
  I suspect ignoring morality and optimizing for long term productive output is probably more effective than focusing on morality. Everything has diminishing returns but a good mix of education, healthcare, research and infrastructure spending is required to optimize long term productivity. Corruption and protected industry's are harmful so you eliminate them. A simple tax system that focuses on maximizing revenue outperforms other approaches while limiting enforcement costs. etc. PS: At some point further investment will have diminishing returns but the US is still well below that threshold with our current technology and we are constantly innovating. And a light hand reduces the tendency for revolution.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

yxhuvud 16y ago

EU would fit the bill, as long as it don't end up too federalized.

revorad 16y ago
Maybe, but another HUGE element which is being completely ignored here is the cultural differences. It's like doing blood transfusion before blood groups were discovered.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Yet being federalized is where the advantages lie. Culteral differences of government, language, style, currency (localized versions of the Euro), entertainment remain. How do you think culture interferes with the EU operating smoothly?

lionhearted 16y ago

> And how do you propose one goes about establishing these decentralized imperial republics? Decentralize governance, establish an intelligent government with some democratic elements if there isn't currently one, and expand internationally by taking control of areas that are grossly misgoverned. China could put Burma under better governance, for instance. Or anyone could put North Korea under better governance. > Superpowers pitying undeveloped countries and nominating themselves as Imperial rulers as the only solution to their plight sounds rather self-serving, don't you think? Well, it would have to serve a successful country for them to put lots of resources into the project. I think the more important question is, could it work? I think the answer to that is yes. People point to some wrongs done by Britain or Rome, not mentioning that many of the places that wrongs were done were much worse before going under British rule. Again, I'm not claiming it's a perfect model - just that it outperforms a lot of other models of government.