3 ms·

There is nothing like masOS. But there certainly are alternatives to MacOS. One of which starts with L.

Rjevski 8y ago
An alternative on which you’d waste more time tinkering with it and trying to get it to work than do real work. Oh and you get an inconsistent and absolutely awful UX as a bonus.
- indymike 8y ago
  Linux GUI is inconsistent. Inside the terminal, Linux has tab completion for command parameters and modifiers and no need to remap the keyboard so the alt and function keys behave. Additionally, you'll spend a lot of time on a mac writing scripts and such do deal with the difference between your Mac dev environment and your Linux production environment (if you do web dev). Honestly, being able to build for iOS and hardware quality were why Macs have been popular with developers. That keyboard is really terrible... so much so I did not buy a mac this time... And I really love Apple's product.
  - mgkimsal 8y ago
    > you'll spend a lot of time on a mac writing scripts and such do deal with the difference between your Mac dev environment and your Linux production environment (if you do web dev) Or you'll just use a virtual machine?
    - eadmund 8y ago
      Why use a virtual Linux machine running on a proprietary OS when I could just run Linux on the hardware? Why would I want to be stuck with a non-tiling window manager? Why would I want to be stuck with a decade-old bash(1)? Why would I want to be stuck with an OS which requires using the GUI to get anything done? I work with macOS users (and used to be one, many many years ago). I honestly feel that I'm far more productive with Linux, and that others I see using Linux are far more productive as well. macOS is very pretty to look at, and it looks great in demos, but I believe it's less productive to actually use. Meanwhile, Linux is like a lever for my mind — or, to steal an old Steve Jobs line, a bicycle for my mind.
      - mgkimsal 8y ago
        i was replying to the poster above who wants to run a mac, but wants parity with linux environment, but then complained about all the time spent dealing with the differences. Specifically in the context of that person's post, re: "if you do web dev", tiling window managers on Linux don't come in to play. "I'm far more productive with Linux". I used to feel that way too, until I wanted to work primarily with laptops, and not have to worry about network drivers, or sleep mode, or worrying that upgrading something would require hours of figuring out what to recompile. I've absolutely no doubt that some people reading this - perhaps even you - will tell me * how I was doing something wrong, or * I need to 'research my hardware before I buy it', or that * you never ever have any of these problems, and every linux laptop you've ever had ran perfectly smoothly with no wifi/sleep/printing issues ever, and * it must be my fault because "ubuntu just works" (or fill in whatever the catchphrase of the day is) I spent 8 years wrestling with Linux on laptops (desktop was generally less of an issue), and don't want to have that be my primary pain point. If I need direct Linux, I have remote servers, or virtual machines (either on macbook or windows). Yes, I may truly miss the productivity of tiling window managers. And... heavens, yes, my bash is out of date. But somehow I survive.
    - indymike 8y ago
      Maintaining a vm is roughly like maintaining an additional computer.
- davidandgoliath 8y ago
  Please. The first thing I have to do when I provision a new macbook is install bettertouchtool, and hack apart at that for an hour to get half-decent hotkeys. Every other OS has half-decent ones. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204948 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204948 — explain why that is simply windows-right or windows-left on every other OS, but apple requires some convoluted fucking process. And that beautiful UX that is the bouncing icons in apple's dock? Oh! New notification from an application, let's have an icon bounce in the dock for a full 45 minutes. Apple is chock-full full of stupid design decisions, Linux has done surprisingly fine in comparison, particularly given the uneven investment, capital-wise. Late last year I swapped back to linux, & gave it a firm shake after ~9 years of apple (I abandoned ship due to the lack of ports, + touchbar). My linux distro gave me a hassle just a few weeks ago, so I tried swapping back to my '17 macbook & couldn't stomach it for more than 30 minutes. Give ubuntu or fedora a try, it's light-years ahead of what it used to be.
- RaleyField 8y ago
  I switched to MacOS and gave it a good 3 month try, it pissed me off so much that I'm back on Linux. > awful UX as a bonus. Mac shell felt arcane and overly verbose, like a weird powershell clone that doesn't pay the price for its verbosity with typed io, and doesn't have autocompletion like every normal shell on Linux. Out of all file managers I still prefer Explorer.exe but I'd take any manager on any Linux DE over Finder, same with notepad or image preview software. macOS doesn't even come with PC keyboard layout for my country, I had to fish for it on the internet, something so basic I doubt even Linux failed to screw up in the last 20 years.
thirdsun 8y ago
For my use case that's not good enough. I'm fine with PC hardware, in fact I'd love to build a desktop with great components for a fraction of the price a Mac entails. However as someone that uses his computer for web development as well as audio work, only macOS covers these areas competently. From what I can tell Windows's subsystem for Linux isn't ready for prime time and the state of audio software on Linux isn't worth discussing.

An alternative on which you’d waste more time tinkering with it and trying to get it to work than do real work. Oh and you get an inconsistent and absolutely awful UX as a bonus.

indymike 8y ago
Linux GUI is inconsistent. Inside the terminal, Linux has tab completion for command parameters and modifiers and no need to remap the keyboard so the alt and function keys behave. Additionally, you'll spend a lot of time on a mac writing scripts and such do deal with the difference between your Mac dev environment and your Linux production environment (if you do web dev). Honestly, being able to build for iOS and hardware quality were why Macs have been popular with developers. That keyboard is really terrible... so much so I did not buy a mac this time... And I really love Apple's product.
- mgkimsal 8y ago
  > you'll spend a lot of time on a mac writing scripts and such do deal with the difference between your Mac dev environment and your Linux production environment (if you do web dev) Or you'll just use a virtual machine?
  - eadmund 8y ago
    Why use a virtual Linux machine running on a proprietary OS when I could just run Linux on the hardware? Why would I want to be stuck with a non-tiling window manager? Why would I want to be stuck with a decade-old bash(1)? Why would I want to be stuck with an OS which requires using the GUI to get anything done? I work with macOS users (and used to be one, many many years ago). I honestly feel that I'm far more productive with Linux, and that others I see using Linux are far more productive as well. macOS is very pretty to look at, and it looks great in demos, but I believe it's less productive to actually use. Meanwhile, Linux is like a lever for my mind — or, to steal an old Steve Jobs line, a bicycle for my mind.
    - mgkimsal 8y ago
      i was replying to the poster above who wants to run a mac, but wants parity with linux environment, but then complained about all the time spent dealing with the differences. Specifically in the context of that person's post, re: "if you do web dev", tiling window managers on Linux don't come in to play. "I'm far more productive with Linux". I used to feel that way too, until I wanted to work primarily with laptops, and not have to worry about network drivers, or sleep mode, or worrying that upgrading something would require hours of figuring out what to recompile. I've absolutely no doubt that some people reading this - perhaps even you - will tell me * how I was doing something wrong, or * I need to 'research my hardware before I buy it', or that * you never ever have any of these problems, and every linux laptop you've ever had ran perfectly smoothly with no wifi/sleep/printing issues ever, and * it must be my fault because "ubuntu just works" (or fill in whatever the catchphrase of the day is) I spent 8 years wrestling with Linux on laptops (desktop was generally less of an issue), and don't want to have that be my primary pain point. If I need direct Linux, I have remote servers, or virtual machines (either on macbook or windows). Yes, I may truly miss the productivity of tiling window managers. And... heavens, yes, my bash is out of date. But somehow I survive.
  - indymike 8y ago
    Maintaining a vm is roughly like maintaining an additional computer.
davidandgoliath 8y ago
Please. The first thing I have to do when I provision a new macbook is install bettertouchtool, and hack apart at that for an hour to get half-decent hotkeys. Every other OS has half-decent ones. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204948 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204948 — explain why that is simply windows-right or windows-left on every other OS, but apple requires some convoluted fucking process. And that beautiful UX that is the bouncing icons in apple's dock? Oh! New notification from an application, let's have an icon bounce in the dock for a full 45 minutes. Apple is chock-full full of stupid design decisions, Linux has done surprisingly fine in comparison, particularly given the uneven investment, capital-wise. Late last year I swapped back to linux, & gave it a firm shake after ~9 years of apple (I abandoned ship due to the lack of ports, + touchbar). My linux distro gave me a hassle just a few weeks ago, so I tried swapping back to my '17 macbook & couldn't stomach it for more than 30 minutes. Give ubuntu or fedora a try, it's light-years ahead of what it used to be.
RaleyField 8y ago
I switched to MacOS and gave it a good 3 month try, it pissed me off so much that I'm back on Linux. > awful UX as a bonus. Mac shell felt arcane and overly verbose, like a weird powershell clone that doesn't pay the price for its verbosity with typed io, and doesn't have autocompletion like every normal shell on Linux. Out of all file managers I still prefer Explorer.exe but I'd take any manager on any Linux DE over Finder, same with notepad or image preview software. macOS doesn't even come with PC keyboard layout for my country, I had to fish for it on the internet, something so basic I doubt even Linux failed to screw up in the last 20 years.

thirdsun 8y ago

For my use case that's not good enough. I'm fine with PC hardware, in fact I'd love to build a desktop with great components for a fraction of the price a Mac entails. However as someone that uses his computer for web development as well as audio work, only macOS covers these areas competently. From what I can tell Windows's subsystem for Linux isn't ready for prime time and the state of audio software on Linux isn't worth discussing.