5 ms·

Why would any developer prefer a Macbook running MacOS, over a Thinkpad running Linux? Thinkpads give you a full control hardware, and Linux gives you a full co

by krn 8y ago

Why would any developer prefer a Macbook running MacOS, over a Thinkpad running Linux? Thinkpads give you a full control hardware, and Linux gives you a full control of software.

jacobush 8y ago
I feel less old with a Mac.
- krn 8y ago
  That's probably why they started making silver Thinkpads.
stephenr 8y ago
If you're developing iOS or macOS software, you need a Mac. If you want to do live browser testing in all major browsers, you need a Mac, and you can do it with no other hardware, as you can virtualise all of Windows/Linux/Android/iOS under macOS. Based on https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426 https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426, Lenovo support for Linux distro's is a mixed bag of "fuck you" and "Enterprise Edition", so "full control" is likely to mean "Full Responsibility", too. Why would any developer prefer to run a hardware/software combination that has zero support if something fails, and predictably endless issue volleyball between h/w and s/w vendors if you happen to use one of the specific combinations that has support, over running hardware and software that is supported by a single company? Personally, I prefer to spend my working hours actually making money. If you prefer to be endlessly tweaking kernel parameters or driver settings because you updated some software and now your trackpad works in reverse, well then good luck to you sir.
- krn 8y ago
  > If you're developing iOS or macOS software, you need a Mac. I agree, that's probably the only valid reason for a developer to prefer a Macbook over a Thinkpad: if he needs to develop software for Apple hardware. But in the age of React Native and Electron, I never had to develop specifically for iOS / MacOS. > Lenovo support for Linux distro's is a mixed bag of "fuck you" and "Enterprise Edition", so "full control" is likely to mean "Full Responsibility", too. In practice, most Linux desktop distributions are developed and tested by people working on Thinkpads. In a non-Apple world, it's the OS developers who decide what hardware they support, not the hardware company. > If you prefer to be endlessly tweaking kernel parameters or driver settings because you updated some software and now your trackpad works in reverse, well then good luck to you sir. I don't remember having to tweak a single thing on my default Linux desktop installation since 2013. Everything just works out of the box, if you pick Fedora Workstation or Ubuntu, and your hardware wasn't released 5 days ago. > Personally, I prefer to spend my working hours actually making money. Yet, I see here people spending their working hours complaining about the hardware they bought from Apple, and the software Apple shipped to them with that hardware, as if they had no other choice in life.
  - stephenr 8y ago
    > probably the only valid reason It's a bad sign you're already talking in absolutes. > in the age of React Native and Electron, I never had to So, you release apps that you've literally never tested on the platforms you support? I bet they work great. Arguing that Electron is a reason not to use a Mac, is like arguing that McDonalds is a reason not to learn how to cook. > most Linux desktop distributions are developed and tested by people working on Thinkpads Great and I assume they'll be on-call to fix your issues at 3am when something goes wrong? > it's the OS developers who decide what hardware they support So.. it's "full control", so long as you pick a distro whose developers/maintainers have chosen to support the combination of devices in the laptop spec you chose.... sounds great. > if you pick Fedora or Ubuntu So now it's "full control" so long as you pick one of two distros, and hardware that meets their requirements to support... > Yet, I see here people spending their working hours Oh, I must have missed the new "posting during work hours" flag. Also - I'd argue that most people on HN don't get paid hourly, they're paid a salary, so if they fuck around on HN for 40 minutes whinging about their laptop, it doesnt actually cost them anything. > as if they had no other choice in life Of course their are choices. I didn't reply to you because you said "I use Distro X on Hardware Y and it works great", I replied because you said "Why would any developer prefer a Macbook running MacOS, over a Thinkpad running Linux?". People complain about "personal anecdotal evidence" being pretty low value - but it's still fucking better value than making blanket, absolute statements, which upon further digging are in fact nuanced with layer after layer of caveats and unstated details.
    - krn 8y ago
      What I said, is that buying Apple hardware just to be able to test iOS / MacOS software doesn't make much sense, unless you work as a iOS / MacOS developer. I don't. And I never stated, that Electron is a reason not to use MacOS. There are hundreds of Linux desktop distributions, because unlike in the Apple-world, PC users actually do have a choice. I mentioned the ones I have most experience with, because I cannot recommended to others what I haven't used extensively myself. I was forced to work on MacOS for a year, and even though it was much better than Windows, it was still far away from the experience a complete Linux workstation can provide to a developer.
mishurov 8y ago
Furthermore. I own a lightweight ultrabook with nVidia and it helped me a lot to train prototypes of neural networks on GPU, 10x or even more faster and CPU is free for usual work.
jorisw 8y ago
Because, in the opinion of some, nothing beats macOS, or ever has.
lylecubed 8y ago
openvpn. I can provide more reasons, but that one is the absolute dealbreaker.
- krn 8y ago
  Wireguard is already here. And it works.
  - lylecubed 8y ago
    I'm a consultant and every company I work with uses openvpn with google authenticator.
wilsonnb3 8y ago
Your question has been answered on the internet so many times that I have a hard time believing anyone asks it in good faith anymore. Convenience > control
- krn 8y ago
  I experienced much more inconvenience as a developer working on MacOS, than I did on Linux. That's why I am asking this. It would be interesting to know, how many developers using Macbooks haven't even tried running desktop Linux in the recent years. There is no comparison, unless you are tied to Apple software.

by krn 8y ago

Why would any developer prefer a Macbook running MacOS, over a Thinkpad running Linux? Thinkpads give you a full control hardware, and Linux gives you a full control of software.

jacobush 8y ago

I feel less old with a Mac.

krn 8y ago
That's probably why they started making silver Thinkpads.

stephenr 8y ago

If you're developing iOS or macOS software, you need a Mac. If you want to do live browser testing in all major browsers, you need a Mac, and you can do it with no other hardware, as you can virtualise all of Windows/Linux/Android/iOS under macOS. Based on https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426 https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426, Lenovo support for Linux distro's is a mixed bag of "fuck you" and "Enterprise Edition", so "full control" is likely to mean "Full Responsibility", too. Why would any developer prefer to run a hardware/software combination that has zero support if something fails, and predictably endless issue volleyball between h/w and s/w vendors if you happen to use one of the specific combinations that has support, over running hardware and software that is supported by a single company? Personally, I prefer to spend my working hours actually making money. If you prefer to be endlessly tweaking kernel parameters or driver settings because you updated some software and now your trackpad works in reverse, well then good luck to you sir.

krn 8y ago
> If you're developing iOS or macOS software, you need a Mac. I agree, that's probably the only valid reason for a developer to prefer a Macbook over a Thinkpad: if he needs to develop software for Apple hardware. But in the age of React Native and Electron, I never had to develop specifically for iOS / MacOS. > Lenovo support for Linux distro's is a mixed bag of "fuck you" and "Enterprise Edition", so "full control" is likely to mean "Full Responsibility", too. In practice, most Linux desktop distributions are developed and tested by people working on Thinkpads. In a non-Apple world, it's the OS developers who decide what hardware they support, not the hardware company. > If you prefer to be endlessly tweaking kernel parameters or driver settings because you updated some software and now your trackpad works in reverse, well then good luck to you sir. I don't remember having to tweak a single thing on my default Linux desktop installation since 2013. Everything just works out of the box, if you pick Fedora Workstation or Ubuntu, and your hardware wasn't released 5 days ago. > Personally, I prefer to spend my working hours actually making money. Yet, I see here people spending their working hours complaining about the hardware they bought from Apple, and the software Apple shipped to them with that hardware, as if they had no other choice in life.
- stephenr 8y ago
  > probably the only valid reason It's a bad sign you're already talking in absolutes. > in the age of React Native and Electron, I never had to So, you release apps that you've literally never tested on the platforms you support? I bet they work great. Arguing that Electron is a reason not to use a Mac, is like arguing that McDonalds is a reason not to learn how to cook. > most Linux desktop distributions are developed and tested by people working on Thinkpads Great and I assume they'll be on-call to fix your issues at 3am when something goes wrong? > it's the OS developers who decide what hardware they support So.. it's "full control", so long as you pick a distro whose developers/maintainers have chosen to support the combination of devices in the laptop spec you chose.... sounds great. > if you pick Fedora or Ubuntu So now it's "full control" so long as you pick one of two distros, and hardware that meets their requirements to support... > Yet, I see here people spending their working hours Oh, I must have missed the new "posting during work hours" flag. Also - I'd argue that most people on HN don't get paid hourly, they're paid a salary, so if they fuck around on HN for 40 minutes whinging about their laptop, it doesnt actually cost them anything. > as if they had no other choice in life Of course their are choices. I didn't reply to you because you said "I use Distro X on Hardware Y and it works great", I replied because you said "Why would any developer prefer a Macbook running MacOS, over a Thinkpad running Linux?". People complain about "personal anecdotal evidence" being pretty low value - but it's still fucking better value than making blanket, absolute statements, which upon further digging are in fact nuanced with layer after layer of caveats and unstated details.
  - krn 8y ago
    What I said, is that buying Apple hardware just to be able to test iOS / MacOS software doesn't make much sense, unless you work as a iOS / MacOS developer. I don't. And I never stated, that Electron is a reason not to use MacOS. There are hundreds of Linux desktop distributions, because unlike in the Apple-world, PC users actually do have a choice. I mentioned the ones I have most experience with, because I cannot recommended to others what I haven't used extensively myself. I was forced to work on MacOS for a year, and even though it was much better than Windows, it was still far away from the experience a complete Linux workstation can provide to a developer.

mishurov 8y ago

Furthermore. I own a lightweight ultrabook with nVidia and it helped me a lot to train prototypes of neural networks on GPU, 10x or even more faster and CPU is free for usual work.

jorisw 8y ago

Because, in the opinion of some, nothing beats macOS, or ever has.

lylecubed 8y ago

openvpn. I can provide more reasons, but that one is the absolute dealbreaker.

krn 8y ago
Wireguard is already here. And it works.
- lylecubed 8y ago
  I'm a consultant and every company I work with uses openvpn with google authenticator.

wilsonnb3 8y ago

Your question has been answered on the internet so many times that I have a hard time believing anyone asks it in good faith anymore. Convenience > control

krn 8y ago
I experienced much more inconvenience as a developer working on MacOS, than I did on Linux. That's why I am asking this. It would be interesting to know, how many developers using Macbooks haven't even tried running desktop Linux in the recent years. There is no comparison, unless you are tied to Apple software.