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France managed to create a law for that specific reason. France decided that any owner of a connection is responsible for it. So if you invite friends over and

France managed to create a law for that specific reason. France decided that any owner of a connection is responsible for it. So if you invite friends over and they start to torrent movies or else, you will be responsible.

zaarn 8y ago
Germany has recently reverted a law like this for Wifi. If you have an open wifi and someone torrents over it, then you're not liable for the illegal activity itself (though a court can force you to install filters and fine you if you didn't and it happens again).
- ninedays 8y ago
  France managed to create a law for that case too. It can be refered as "lack of security". You are also responsible for having a connection that is supposedly secure. If that's not the case ("oh, I have no technical knowledge on how to enable password protection for my network"), you are responsible as well. There are exemples of companies that were fined because of this law.
squirrelicus 8y ago
This seems strange. If someone uses my car for a malicious act, or uses my house's electrical connection to damage the grid, or something like that, I'm clearly not liable.
- chronial 8y ago
  > If someone uses my car for a malicious act [...] I'm clearly not liable. It is not that simple if you left your car unlocked. Leaving an unlocked car around with the key in the ignition is clearly a public danger.
  - realusername 8y ago
    If you put a law like this, why even have a justice system? Either you are guilty of piracy or you are guilty of not securing enough your computer. Having a case where you are guilty whatever you say makes no sense, especially for something where the damages to society are very abstract and not proven, like piracy.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      It's possible to actually nor have your computer used in piracy, and the justice system would still be about proving whether it was. Also, even if there was liability for negligence in security contributing to piracy, it might be lesser than for willful piracy itself. The law suggested may be bad, but it doesn't remove the role of the justice system in determine the existence and degree of liability.
  - squirrelicus 8y ago
    Interesting. I've never heard this before. Id love to see some statutes or cases here, because it's not clear to me. This behavior isn't unheard of in my neck of the woods
    - chronial 8y ago
      I can't help you regarding the US. I live in Germany and there's a law (§15 StVO) that says "The driver of a vehicle must take the necessary precautions to prevent accidents and disturbances to traffic when they exit the vehicle. Vehicles also have to be secured against unauthorized use." I had a quick google and I found mentions that you will get fines for this. I did not find an example of something bad happening with an unlocked car.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ThinkingGuy 8y ago
  >If someone uses my car for a malicious act Depends on the act. In the state of Georgia, at least, if a passenger in the car you're driving throws litter out the window, you're responsible (not that this particular law is ever enforced).
rococode 8y ago
How does this work for public locations like libraries or Starbucks? I remember when I went to France many places had free wifi (sometimes with password but it's not like it's hard to ask for it).
- ninedays 8y ago
  It is up to the company to "secure" their connection to prevent this type of thing (block some ports that are used to torrent, block websites, ...). We, technical people, know that is such an imperfect law that can be circumvented in so many ways and yet it exists today.
  - colejohnson66 8y ago
    > block some ports that are used to torrent So basically all of them? Because I can tell my torrent client to use whatever port I want

zaarn 8y ago

Germany has recently reverted a law like this for Wifi. If you have an open wifi and someone torrents over it, then you're not liable for the illegal activity itself (though a court can force you to install filters and fine you if you didn't and it happens again).

ninedays 8y ago
France managed to create a law for that case too. It can be refered as "lack of security". You are also responsible for having a connection that is supposedly secure. If that's not the case ("oh, I have no technical knowledge on how to enable password protection for my network"), you are responsible as well. There are exemples of companies that were fined because of this law.

squirrelicus 8y ago

This seems strange. If someone uses my car for a malicious act, or uses my house's electrical connection to damage the grid, or something like that, I'm clearly not liable.

chronial 8y ago
> If someone uses my car for a malicious act [...] I'm clearly not liable. It is not that simple if you left your car unlocked. Leaving an unlocked car around with the key in the ignition is clearly a public danger.
- realusername 8y ago
  If you put a law like this, why even have a justice system? Either you are guilty of piracy or you are guilty of not securing enough your computer. Having a case where you are guilty whatever you say makes no sense, especially for something where the damages to society are very abstract and not proven, like piracy.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    It's possible to actually nor have your computer used in piracy, and the justice system would still be about proving whether it was. Also, even if there was liability for negligence in security contributing to piracy, it might be lesser than for willful piracy itself. The law suggested may be bad, but it doesn't remove the role of the justice system in determine the existence and degree of liability.
- squirrelicus 8y ago
  Interesting. I've never heard this before. Id love to see some statutes or cases here, because it's not clear to me. This behavior isn't unheard of in my neck of the woods
  - chronial 8y ago
    I can't help you regarding the US. I live in Germany and there's a law (§15 StVO) that says "The driver of a vehicle must take the necessary precautions to prevent accidents and disturbances to traffic when they exit the vehicle. Vehicles also have to be secured against unauthorized use." I had a quick google and I found mentions that you will get fines for this. I did not find an example of something bad happening with an unlocked car.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ThinkingGuy 8y ago
>If someone uses my car for a malicious act Depends on the act. In the state of Georgia, at least, if a passenger in the car you're driving throws litter out the window, you're responsible (not that this particular law is ever enforced).

rococode 8y ago

How does this work for public locations like libraries or Starbucks? I remember when I went to France many places had free wifi (sometimes with password but it's not like it's hard to ask for it).

ninedays 8y ago
It is up to the company to "secure" their connection to prevent this type of thing (block some ports that are used to torrent, block websites, ...). We, technical people, know that is such an imperfect law that can be circumvented in so many ways and yet it exists today.
- colejohnson66 8y ago
  > block some ports that are used to torrent So basically all of them? Because I can tell my torrent client to use whatever port I want