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> And in the end nothing happened That's nonsense. Demonetization was a contributing factor in the following: * Increase in tax-payers * Increase in E-fillin

> And in the end nothing happened That's nonsense. Demonetization was a contributing factor in the following: * Increase in tax-payers * Increase in E-filling * Removal of fake currency * Crushing of Real-estate black market * Removal of shell companies * Decrease in funding of Naxalites and Kashmiri separatists Demo failed because the government didn't have a clear objective in the first place. Later they started shifting goal-posts to prove it as a success. However, saying that it acheived nothing is ignorance at best. > People died This is again nonsense. People are still dying in India due to the negligence of hospitals, civic officials etc. Blaming this on Demonetization doesn't make sense. Demonetization deserves to be criticized but the criticism should be objective and not just a mere reflection of opposition propaganda. Sources: https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/sH5FSnXPkuAhknhzuPgH3M/Demonetisation-and-the-fight-against-black-money.html https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/sH5FSnXPkuAhknhzuPgH3M/Demo... https://www.quora.com/99-3-demonetised-notes-came-back-concedes-Reserve-Bank-of-India-Does-this-mean-that-Modis-demonetisation-did-nothing-for-India https://www.quora.com/99-3-demonetised-notes-came-back-conce...

kamaal 8y ago
>>Crushing of Real-estate black market What goes on in peoples minds to believe in these things? Paint, Steel, Cement, Bathroom fittings, Tiles heck every single company that connects the RE market is on the stock exchange. You can't register a hut in the property registration office since a decade without a PAN number. And builders haven't been taking cash since more than a decade now. Where is this non-existent black money in the Real Estate market? Looks like people build fictional theories in their minds and then go enact rogue policies which ruin many other things as side effect.
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  > You can't register a hut in the property registration office since a decade without a PAN number. And builders haven't been taking cash since more than a decade now. Where I stay(Mumbai suburb), taking some percentage of money as cash was always the norm. For example, for a flat worth 90 lakhs, you were expected to pay 60-75 lakhs in white and the rest in black(cash). This inflated the costs and many folks could not afford a flat due to this. It's mostly gone now thanks to RERA but Demo also played some part.
  - dmurray 8y ago
    Shouldn't it deflate the cost? If the seller had to pay 10 lakhs extra in tax, he would sell it for 100 lakhs instead of 90.
    - sseth 8y ago
      Its not about inflated cost. It removes your ability to get a higher loan amount, . And increases the risk in the transaction as the cash component is now not backed by any documentation. And finally, it increases any eventual capital gains you have to pay unless you again perpetuate the cycle by taking black money.
- sseth 8y ago
  It is stupefying to hear people argue that real estate in India does not involve black money. You have to be wilfully blind to say this. In every part of the country, real estate transactions used to have a cash and a cheque component. The value is under-reported to avoid paying stamp duty and registration, as well as in many cases to recycle black money. The proportion of these transactions has reduced since RERA, GST and demonetization. But it still goes on.
- vishnugupta 8y ago
  > What goes on in peoples minds to believe in these things? Anecdotally, RE is by far one of the largest destinations of black money. A friend is still unable to sell his flat 'coz he doesn't want to accept cash. Another has had to bring down the price from ~2Cr to ~1.7Cr, still no takers for the same reason. Sure, all those measures (PAN etc.,) exist but so do enough loop holes. One common practice is to register the property at a super low (almost nominal) price compared to actual transaction amount. This is what I as a common person know. I'm sure those involved in daily RE dealings have more tricks up their sleeves. So yeah, it's clearly not fictional.
  - kamaal 8y ago
    The problems you describe aren't black money problems. These are problems related to overall demand and supply situations of the RE market, and in general the every day economic situation in India. They won't go away anytime soon because, urbanization trends have just started and almost everyone wants to come to cities for jobs. Also don't forget bulk of India is poor with high birth rates, so you will have these problems for several decades may be even till the end of this century. Bangalore alone gets hundreds if not thousands of people coming in every day. With that sort of demand, you can't run a housing market and supply homes at a cheap price. Nor will you be able to run a pure bank/electronic transaction based market. The reason for that is that the base infrastructure for such an economic ecosystem isn't ready. Even in Bangalore you have several hour long power cuts. And that is Bangalore. The rural centers have it way worse. In all this your every day people, every one from street vegetable suppliers to cement and paint vendors for RE have to work seamlessly. That means 'cash' will be exchanged. Also merely cash being exchanged doesn't make it black. Ultimately if you are buying cement, paint, steel, bath fittings etc. You are paying white money only, because it goes to registered and tax accounted compaies. Plus you can't buy a flat in any city from a medium and above builder in cash. No one accepts it. And yes, if you are buying a flat for 2 crores, you need to go in for a loan, which comes from a bank, so there is accountability at another layer. And registrations requires PAN, there you have door for audit open. Another hard thing to come to terms with regards to Indian RE market is people invest in lands decades in Advance, These are not necessarily rich people, these are your ordinary businessmen, shop keepers, salaried masses. In Bangalore, outskirts lands are bought out like >20 years in advance for chicken feed prices, when the demand grows and people come to settle they are faced with impossible prices because investors have long bought the lands. Or they have to rent at exorbitant rates. Real estate is another of things where people with long term vision and enterprise to spend time physically, have a disproportionate edge over those who don't. I have seen even top managers with top salaries end up with extremely bitter feelings and deep resentment towards common folks on the streets because the latter had the sense to buy lands some 20 years in advance and are now worth 20x more than the manager, despite the managers having 1000x a better career than them. These problems are not going to go anytime soon. And lastly even in the middle of DeMo prices didn't move in Bangalore. People who tossed around opportunities to buy flats at 50L-60L in 2008-2010 thinking they will buy in the crash period, were in for a big shock that prices are 1.2Cr-1.5Cr and the market didn't crash either. The only way to win the RE game is to enter early and play. Come late or don't play you lose by default.
- TheArcane 8y ago
  > What goes on in peoples minds to believe in these things? Nothing. It's just blind faith in Dear Leader and in everything he says or does.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > builders haven't been taking cash since more than a decade now Why do you think they have accounts in Mauritius?
realrocker 8y ago
Have a better source than an opinion post and a quora post ?
- TheArcane 8y ago
  Bhakt mental gymnastics are on full swing.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
TheArcane 8y ago
You quote a Quora answer as a reference and expect your answer on HN to be taken seriously?
intended 8y ago
I'm sorry, I said this days after demonitization (you can take a look at my post history) before the opposition got its talking points together. Since then reality has only conspired to be itself, thus my assessments have been shown to be right. And furthermore - my argument is gentle with people who support demonitization. A full argument would be harsh and unforgiving. The opportunity cost of Demonitization? The actual execution cost of the whole exercise? the HARM to the economy? All that time standing in line? That was time people would have been working and generating tax revenue across the country. That money to create 2000 RS notes which didn't fit ATM trays? The MANY technicians and over time which had to be paid to get everything working? The country was brought to a standstill. IF the previous govt had done something like that we would have lynched them (and rightfully so)

kamaal 8y ago

>>Crushing of Real-estate black market What goes on in peoples minds to believe in these things? Paint, Steel, Cement, Bathroom fittings, Tiles heck every single company that connects the RE market is on the stock exchange. You can't register a hut in the property registration office since a decade without a PAN number. And builders haven't been taking cash since more than a decade now. Where is this non-existent black money in the Real Estate market? Looks like people build fictional theories in their minds and then go enact rogue policies which ruin many other things as side effect.

sbmthakur 8y ago
> You can't register a hut in the property registration office since a decade without a PAN number. And builders haven't been taking cash since more than a decade now. Where I stay(Mumbai suburb), taking some percentage of money as cash was always the norm. For example, for a flat worth 90 lakhs, you were expected to pay 60-75 lakhs in white and the rest in black(cash). This inflated the costs and many folks could not afford a flat due to this. It's mostly gone now thanks to RERA but Demo also played some part.
- dmurray 8y ago
  Shouldn't it deflate the cost? If the seller had to pay 10 lakhs extra in tax, he would sell it for 100 lakhs instead of 90.
  - sseth 8y ago
    Its not about inflated cost. It removes your ability to get a higher loan amount, . And increases the risk in the transaction as the cash component is now not backed by any documentation. And finally, it increases any eventual capital gains you have to pay unless you again perpetuate the cycle by taking black money.
sseth 8y ago
It is stupefying to hear people argue that real estate in India does not involve black money. You have to be wilfully blind to say this. In every part of the country, real estate transactions used to have a cash and a cheque component. The value is under-reported to avoid paying stamp duty and registration, as well as in many cases to recycle black money. The proportion of these transactions has reduced since RERA, GST and demonetization. But it still goes on.
vishnugupta 8y ago
> What goes on in peoples minds to believe in these things? Anecdotally, RE is by far one of the largest destinations of black money. A friend is still unable to sell his flat 'coz he doesn't want to accept cash. Another has had to bring down the price from ~2Cr to ~1.7Cr, still no takers for the same reason. Sure, all those measures (PAN etc.,) exist but so do enough loop holes. One common practice is to register the property at a super low (almost nominal) price compared to actual transaction amount. This is what I as a common person know. I'm sure those involved in daily RE dealings have more tricks up their sleeves. So yeah, it's clearly not fictional.
- kamaal 8y ago
  The problems you describe aren't black money problems. These are problems related to overall demand and supply situations of the RE market, and in general the every day economic situation in India. They won't go away anytime soon because, urbanization trends have just started and almost everyone wants to come to cities for jobs. Also don't forget bulk of India is poor with high birth rates, so you will have these problems for several decades may be even till the end of this century. Bangalore alone gets hundreds if not thousands of people coming in every day. With that sort of demand, you can't run a housing market and supply homes at a cheap price. Nor will you be able to run a pure bank/electronic transaction based market. The reason for that is that the base infrastructure for such an economic ecosystem isn't ready. Even in Bangalore you have several hour long power cuts. And that is Bangalore. The rural centers have it way worse. In all this your every day people, every one from street vegetable suppliers to cement and paint vendors for RE have to work seamlessly. That means 'cash' will be exchanged. Also merely cash being exchanged doesn't make it black. Ultimately if you are buying cement, paint, steel, bath fittings etc. You are paying white money only, because it goes to registered and tax accounted compaies. Plus you can't buy a flat in any city from a medium and above builder in cash. No one accepts it. And yes, if you are buying a flat for 2 crores, you need to go in for a loan, which comes from a bank, so there is accountability at another layer. And registrations requires PAN, there you have door for audit open. Another hard thing to come to terms with regards to Indian RE market is people invest in lands decades in Advance, These are not necessarily rich people, these are your ordinary businessmen, shop keepers, salaried masses. In Bangalore, outskirts lands are bought out like >20 years in advance for chicken feed prices, when the demand grows and people come to settle they are faced with impossible prices because investors have long bought the lands. Or they have to rent at exorbitant rates. Real estate is another of things where people with long term vision and enterprise to spend time physically, have a disproportionate edge over those who don't. I have seen even top managers with top salaries end up with extremely bitter feelings and deep resentment towards common folks on the streets because the latter had the sense to buy lands some 20 years in advance and are now worth 20x more than the manager, despite the managers having 1000x a better career than them. These problems are not going to go anytime soon. And lastly even in the middle of DeMo prices didn't move in Bangalore. People who tossed around opportunities to buy flats at 50L-60L in 2008-2010 thinking they will buy in the crash period, were in for a big shock that prices are 1.2Cr-1.5Cr and the market didn't crash either. The only way to win the RE game is to enter early and play. Come late or don't play you lose by default.
TheArcane 8y ago
> What goes on in peoples minds to believe in these things? Nothing. It's just blind faith in Dear Leader and in everything he says or does.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> builders haven't been taking cash since more than a decade now Why do you think they have accounts in Mauritius?

realrocker 8y ago

Have a better source than an opinion post and a quora post ?

TheArcane 8y ago
Bhakt mental gymnastics are on full swing.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

TheArcane 8y ago

You quote a Quora answer as a reference and expect your answer on HN to be taken seriously?

intended 8y ago

I'm sorry, I said this days after demonitization (you can take a look at my post history) before the opposition got its talking points together. Since then reality has only conspired to be itself, thus my assessments have been shown to be right. And furthermore - my argument is gentle with people who support demonitization. A full argument would be harsh and unforgiving. The opportunity cost of Demonitization? The actual execution cost of the whole exercise? the HARM to the economy? All that time standing in line? That was time people would have been working and generating tax revenue across the country. That money to create 2000 RS notes which didn't fit ATM trays? The MANY technicians and over time which had to be paid to get everything working? The country was brought to a standstill. IF the previous govt had done something like that we would have lynched them (and rightfully so)