3 ms·

I sometimes (although not very often) do tell people unilaterally. Usually, it's a good way to tell a coward. If the other person is a coward, they won't share

by js8 8y ago

I sometimes (although not very often) do tell people unilaterally. Usually, it's a good way to tell a coward. If the other person is a coward, they won't share theirs. That's a good thing to know about a person. Although I often regret knowing that they are a coward, mostly they are good people. I like to joke that my company is ashamed about what it pays me, therefore I shouldn't talk about it. And I am a nice guy, and don't want the company to feel the shame without a good reason.

PhilWright 8y ago
Maybe they do not reciprocate because they earn much more for doing the same job and do not want to depress you with that knowledge. Maybe they earn much less for the same job and are embarrassed about that. There are many reasons someone would not share their salary with you and being a coward is unlikely to be the main one.
- js8 8y ago
  I don't mean the word "coward" in a judgemental way. Think about what you just said for a minute. These people don't want to reciprocate honesty because they are afraid of my emotional reaction. That means, how can I trust them with other things? For example, something goes wrong and they mess up. Will they be afraid to tell me, because they will be worried that I am going to be angry or depressed? Now, it's perfectly fine to be afraid of other person's emotional reaction (that's why it's non-judgemental). But if you are still afraid after I made the first step, then it's a good thing for me to know about you.
  - pluto9 8y ago
    I'm going to DM you all of my medical records. I'm also going to send you a homemade porno I made with my girlfriend. If you don't reciprocate, you're a coward. But don't worry, I'm not judging you.
    - js8 8y ago
      Thanks, I look forward to see it! But I think you're missing the point - medical records or homemade porn are not subject to decision of external human power against which we might consider to conspire by exchanging information.
      - pluto9 8y ago
        I think you're missing the point--someone can choose not to share personal information with you because they've deemed it none of your business, not because they're "afraid of your reaction". The fact that you chose to share said information places absolutely no moral obligation on anyone else whatsoever.
        js8 8y ago
        Except it is my business. The whole free market and negotiations for better salaries thing relies on participants having enough information. See, it's a prisoner's dilemma type of deal (actually, it's a different game). I offer cooperation - you can either decide to deny it (by keeping your salary private) or cooperate also (by stating your salary back). If you decide to reciprocate useful information, then we might cooperate more in the future for mutual benefit. So it's useful information whether you want to get into coalition with me. I don't care the same way about your health or your porn.
        pluto9 8y ago
        > Except it is my business. The whole free market and negotiations for better salaries thing relies on participants having enough information. > See, it's a prisoner's dilemma type of deal (actually, it's a different game). All of this is your opinion. Has it ever occurred to you that others might not see salary negotiation this way, and therefore could have other reasons for not joining your "coalition" besides cowardice? I and many others see salary negotiation differently than you do. I negotiated my salary with my employer when I started my job. That means I consider it worth my while to do the job for that amount and my employer thinks it's worth that amount to employ me. Otherwise one of us would have walked away. The fairness of my salary is independent of whether the guy next to me makes twice as much or half as much. I couldn't give two shits how much he makes. I would not "get into a coalition" with you because I would find it irritating to know that I helped you in your entirely self-interested crusade to raise your own salary in the name of "fairness" or "mutual benefit" or "fighting the man" or however you might characterize it. I also simply don't like to associate with people who use words like "coward" to describe anyone who has more of a social filter than they do (you sound like you're seventeen). You can attribute that to spite if you want, but cowardice would be quite a leap.
nostromo95 8y ago
Not to be crass, but you might just as well call someone a coward when they won’t show you their genitals after you unilaterally show them yours. If you uninvitedly told me your salary I’d think you’re a clown.
- js8 8y ago
  First of all, to clarify, I do it unilaterally but only within a certain context (among friends, if it comes up). For complicated human reasons, it's a bad analogy. Although you're right that the game-theoretic reasons for humans hiding their genitals and hiding their salaries might actually be similar. Interestingly, there was nudism movement, which was basically about right to display your genitals (in non-invasive way). And I think we should, as humans, also have the right to count our money in public. Shouldn't we?

by js8 8y ago

PhilWright 8y ago

Maybe they do not reciprocate because they earn much more for doing the same job and do not want to depress you with that knowledge. Maybe they earn much less for the same job and are embarrassed about that. There are many reasons someone would not share their salary with you and being a coward is unlikely to be the main one.

js8 8y ago
I don't mean the word "coward" in a judgemental way. Think about what you just said for a minute. These people don't want to reciprocate honesty because they are afraid of my emotional reaction. That means, how can I trust them with other things? For example, something goes wrong and they mess up. Will they be afraid to tell me, because they will be worried that I am going to be angry or depressed? Now, it's perfectly fine to be afraid of other person's emotional reaction (that's why it's non-judgemental). But if you are still afraid after I made the first step, then it's a good thing for me to know about you.
- pluto9 8y ago
  I'm going to DM you all of my medical records. I'm also going to send you a homemade porno I made with my girlfriend. If you don't reciprocate, you're a coward. But don't worry, I'm not judging you.
  - js8 8y ago
    Thanks, I look forward to see it! But I think you're missing the point - medical records or homemade porn are not subject to decision of external human power against which we might consider to conspire by exchanging information.
    - pluto9 8y ago
      I think you're missing the point--someone can choose not to share personal information with you because they've deemed it none of your business, not because they're "afraid of your reaction". The fact that you chose to share said information places absolutely no moral obligation on anyone else whatsoever.
      - js8 8y ago
        Except it is my business. The whole free market and negotiations for better salaries thing relies on participants having enough information. See, it's a prisoner's dilemma type of deal (actually, it's a different game). I offer cooperation - you can either decide to deny it (by keeping your salary private) or cooperate also (by stating your salary back). If you decide to reciprocate useful information, then we might cooperate more in the future for mutual benefit. So it's useful information whether you want to get into coalition with me. I don't care the same way about your health or your porn.
        pluto9 8y ago
        > Except it is my business. The whole free market and negotiations for better salaries thing relies on participants having enough information. > See, it's a prisoner's dilemma type of deal (actually, it's a different game). All of this is your opinion. Has it ever occurred to you that others might not see salary negotiation this way, and therefore could have other reasons for not joining your "coalition" besides cowardice? I and many others see salary negotiation differently than you do. I negotiated my salary with my employer when I started my job. That means I consider it worth my while to do the job for that amount and my employer thinks it's worth that amount to employ me. Otherwise one of us would have walked away. The fairness of my salary is independent of whether the guy next to me makes twice as much or half as much. I couldn't give two shits how much he makes. I would not "get into a coalition" with you because I would find it irritating to know that I helped you in your entirely self-interested crusade to raise your own salary in the name of "fairness" or "mutual benefit" or "fighting the man" or however you might characterize it. I also simply don't like to associate with people who use words like "coward" to describe anyone who has more of a social filter than they do (you sound like you're seventeen). You can attribute that to spite if you want, but cowardice would be quite a leap.

nostromo95 8y ago

Not to be crass, but you might just as well call someone a coward when they won’t show you their genitals after you unilaterally show them yours. If you uninvitedly told me your salary I’d think you’re a clown.

js8 8y ago
First of all, to clarify, I do it unilaterally but only within a certain context (among friends, if it comes up). For complicated human reasons, it's a bad analogy. Although you're right that the game-theoretic reasons for humans hiding their genitals and hiding their salaries might actually be similar. Interestingly, there was nudism movement, which was basically about right to display your genitals (in non-invasive way). And I think we should, as humans, also have the right to count our money in public. Shouldn't we?