24 ms·

No. Have you heard of 9/11?

by unit91 8y ago

jacquesm 8y ago
Sure. As I'm sure the 19 year old Afghan that tried to slaughter two of your countrymen in Amsterdam Central Station has too. Afghanistan as a country had very little to do with 9/11. Nor did Iraq for that matter.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
It's sort of an HN tradition that anyone with actual expertise related to, basically, a touchy subject who tries to give some push back on inaccurate information will get some kind of inappropriate remark that makes them out to be an apologist for bad behavior, one of the bad guys, or similar. Thank you for serving your country. Thank you for lending your voice to this discussion. Even though you can't downvote such comments (when they are a direct reply to you), you can flag them (if you have enough karma, like 50 pts iirc). That's probably the best thing to do as the HN guidelines indicate we shouldn't reply to bad comments, it just deepens the problem.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  'Thank you for serving your country' -> Thank you for putting your life on the line on a geopolitical chessboard where American interests and lives trump those of the locals and where 'collateral damage' is entirely acceptable as long as the troops come home in one piece. Keep in mind that the only thing the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have done is to create many more terrorists and destabilized a huge part of the world and left the rest of the world to absorb the damage done. So, no thanks for serving your country from me. This is not WWII where there is a 'good' and a 'bad' side, it's all one huge clusterfuck of special interests, commercial interests and good old empire building rolled all into one, to be abandoned when the cost turns out to be too high leaving a power vacuum which then is filled by local strongmen.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Jacques, this isn't appropriate behavior on HN. I probably defend you more than anyone else on Hacker News because it sticks in my craw to see you targeted for the crime of being high on the leaderboard. But your position on the leaderboard in no way makes these comments pass muster for the HN guidelines. It's an ugly personal attack. Maybe take your political opinions to your well trafficked blog and vent there. But it isn't acceptable here. The guidelines do not say "Unless you are on the leaderboard, and then feel free to do whatever you want."
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      I don't need you to tell me what is and what is not appropriate behavior on HN or elsewhere. The only person monitoring the leaderboard is you, I don't give a rats ass for votes, up or down and could not care less about you coming to my aid because I do not need it. As for personal attacks, what you are doing here is a personal attack.
      - DoreenMichele 8y ago
        I don't think it is an attack on you. You seem to have some personal issue with me and you have accused me of sticking the knife in at any opportunity. This is not true. I also defend you. For the record, I have a lot of respect you. I don't care if you believe that or not. From what I gather, someone has your ear and is filling it with lies about me. I've given you a lot of latitude in part because of my high personal regard for you, but I'm not attacking you here and I'm not obligated to tippy toe around you or something and defer to your opinion or something because of whatever your personal issue with me is. I will make a note that you aren't interested in me defending you and try to restrain myself in the future when I see people behaving inappropriately towards you. I'm not the moderator here. It's not my job to moderate the space. But I am a member and folks do make "meta" comments at times. I'm done here. I don't intend to reply further. This is not productive.
        jacquesm 8y ago
        > You seem to have some personal issue with me I notice you mixed yourself into this thread unasked.
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    You realize that the Netherland have also deployed troops to Afghanistan as part of the NATO mission there right? [1][2] I'm curious if you would say the same hostile things to a Dutch soldier who was only serving his or her own country as they were asked to do. [1] https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2018/06/15/netherlands-to-intensify-military-mission-in-afghanistan-and-end-involvement-in-mali https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2018/06/15/netherlands... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-10829837 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-10829837
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      > I'm curious if you would say the same things to a Dutch military soldier who was only serving his or her own country as they were asked to do. Count on it. But being sucked into Iraq was the bigger error.
      - bogomipz 8y ago
        And hopefully they will take a minute to explain to you that the reason you are free to pursue your software business is because people like them have committed to the business of keeping you and your country safe.
        jacquesm 8y ago
        NL has been pretty safe for the last 70 years, anybody you'd like to thank you better get on with it. The major reason NL has been so safe is because the EEG and later the EU came into being, not because of any action by enlisted military. The NATO 'an attack on one is an attack on all' combined with the nukes of France and the UK are the bigger part of the balance there, with some help from the US, where there arguably is room to point out that this was mostly to serve US interests rather than the interests of Europe, any kind of fuck-up there would have likely turned the EU into a smoldering pile of ashes. NL has very little to be proud of when it comes to the deployment of the military, both historically and in the present.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

No. Have you heard of 9/11?

by unit91 8y ago

No. Have you heard of 9/11?

Sure. As I'm sure the 19 year old Afghan that tried to slaughter two of your countrymen in Amsterdam Central Station has too. Afghanistan as a country had very little to do with 9/11. Nor did Iraq for that matter.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

It's sort of an HN tradition that anyone with actual expertise related to, basically, a touchy subject who tries to give some push back on inaccurate information will get some kind of inappropriate remark that makes them out to be an apologist for bad behavior, one of the bad guys, or similar. Thank you for serving your country. Thank you for lending your voice to this discussion. Even though you can't downvote such comments (when they are a direct reply to you), you can flag them (if you have enough karma, like 50 pts iirc). That's probably the best thing to do as the HN guidelines indicate we shouldn't reply to bad comments, it just deepens the problem.

jacquesm 8y ago
'Thank you for serving your country' -> Thank you for putting your life on the line on a geopolitical chessboard where American interests and lives trump those of the locals and where 'collateral damage' is entirely acceptable as long as the troops come home in one piece. Keep in mind that the only thing the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have done is to create many more terrorists and destabilized a huge part of the world and left the rest of the world to absorb the damage done. So, no thanks for serving your country from me. This is not WWII where there is a 'good' and a 'bad' side, it's all one huge clusterfuck of special interests, commercial interests and good old empire building rolled all into one, to be abandoned when the cost turns out to be too high leaving a power vacuum which then is filled by local strongmen.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Jacques, this isn't appropriate behavior on HN. I probably defend you more than anyone else on Hacker News because it sticks in my craw to see you targeted for the crime of being high on the leaderboard. But your position on the leaderboard in no way makes these comments pass muster for the HN guidelines. It's an ugly personal attack. Maybe take your political opinions to your well trafficked blog and vent there. But it isn't acceptable here. The guidelines do not say "Unless you are on the leaderboard, and then feel free to do whatever you want."
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    I don't need you to tell me what is and what is not appropriate behavior on HN or elsewhere. The only person monitoring the leaderboard is you, I don't give a rats ass for votes, up or down and could not care less about you coming to my aid because I do not need it. As for personal attacks, what you are doing here is a personal attack.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      I don't think it is an attack on you. You seem to have some personal issue with me and you have accused me of sticking the knife in at any opportunity. This is not true. I also defend you. For the record, I have a lot of respect you. I don't care if you believe that or not. From what I gather, someone has your ear and is filling it with lies about me. I've given you a lot of latitude in part because of my high personal regard for you, but I'm not attacking you here and I'm not obligated to tippy toe around you or something and defer to your opinion or something because of whatever your personal issue with me is. I will make a note that you aren't interested in me defending you and try to restrain myself in the future when I see people behaving inappropriately towards you. I'm not the moderator here. It's not my job to moderate the space. But I am a member and folks do make "meta" comments at times. I'm done here. I don't intend to reply further. This is not productive.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        > You seem to have some personal issue with me I notice you mixed yourself into this thread unasked.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  You realize that the Netherland have also deployed troops to Afghanistan as part of the NATO mission there right? [1][2] I'm curious if you would say the same hostile things to a Dutch soldier who was only serving his or her own country as they were asked to do. [1] https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2018/06/15/netherlands-to-intensify-military-mission-in-afghanistan-and-end-involvement-in-mali https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2018/06/15/netherlands... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-10829837 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-10829837
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    > I'm curious if you would say the same things to a Dutch military soldier who was only serving his or her own country as they were asked to do. Count on it. But being sucked into Iraq was the bigger error.
    - bogomipz 8y ago
      And hopefully they will take a minute to explain to you that the reason you are free to pursue your software business is because people like them have committed to the business of keeping you and your country safe.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        NL has been pretty safe for the last 70 years, anybody you'd like to thank you better get on with it. The major reason NL has been so safe is because the EEG and later the EU came into being, not because of any action by enlisted military. The NATO 'an attack on one is an attack on all' combined with the nukes of France and the UK are the bigger part of the balance there, with some help from the US, where there arguably is room to point out that this was mostly to serve US interests rather than the interests of Europe, any kind of fuck-up there would have likely turned the EU into a smoldering pile of ashes. NL has very little to be proud of when it comes to the deployment of the military, both historically and in the present.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]