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> A goods trade deficit, almost entirely courtesy of oil imports (strangely no oil tariffs have been announced, though...). When you add services it has been a

> A goods trade deficit, almost entirely courtesy of oil imports (strangely no oil tariffs have been announced, though...). When you add services it has been a wash to a US surplus for many years. I guess, but goods trade deficit is still a goods trade deficit. Isn't that what trump was complaining about? > Virtually the entirety of anti-NAFTA sentiment was anti-Mexico sentiment. No. It was also anti-canada. Especially with the midwest states. Bernie Sanders had a lot of support in the north and midwest states amongst democrats because he targeted canada. > It's actually a bit amazing how Trump's supporters have been swayed into being anti-Canadian. It's remarkable. It's remarkable how trump and hillary supporters are so easily swayed. That's why I said people should stop being emotionally manipulated by cable news. > How is that a counter-point? If trump's president is unraveling, don't you think mexico and south korea would have just waited it out? > But Mexico "agreed" because they got almost everything they wanted out of it. That doesn't make any sense. Mexico didn't want to renegotiate. They had nothing they wanted. Mexico and canada specifically said NAFTA was perfect the way it was and that they would never renegotiate. > Of course they'd sign that. Sign something they never wanted to sign? What about south korea? Did they also get a good deal? Using your logic, why didn't mexico, canada and south korea demand to renegotiate so that they can get "good deals"? Since mexico got a good deal, should we praise trump for helping mexico? Does that make Trump a generous person? Or do we have twist everything trump does to further an agenda? Or is it possible to look at things objectively or rationally? But one thing we can agree on is how the trump supporters and also his detractors are so emotionally swayed. Wish everyone would just stay away from cable news. It's just as bad as facebook.

endorphone 8y ago
"Mexico and canada specifically said NAFTA was perfect the way it was and that they would never renegotiate." LOL. No, Mexico and Canada didn't "specifically" say that, and such is a ridiculous claim. Canada had a huge list of proposed NAFTA modernizations at the ready. Canada has been a very willing partner in renegotiation until it turned out that the US side was entirely in bad faith. Out of which bullshit-hole did you pull that ridiculous claim? "No. It was also anti-canada. Especially with the midwest states" Given that most midwestern states rely heavily on Canadian trade, no, it wasn't. Wisconsin dairy farmers were swayed into thinking Canada was their problem, but that is a tiny, tiny proportion. Just to be clear -- Trump has threatened congress, and overwhelmingly US congressional and senate reps have stated that they will not accept a NAFTA without Canada, to the point that Trump has petulantly said that he will just cancel the whole thing (which he can't do, but he has illusions that he is king). How does this indicate this anti-Canada sentiment you imagine? "I guess, but goods trade deficit is still a goods trade deficit. Isn't that what trump was complaining about?" If he is an imbecile, sure? I mean, he is, but aside from that it's like saying that there's a soybean imbalance so throw it all away. It is profoundly stupid. "If trump's president is unraveling, don't you think mexico and south korea would have just waited it out?" Absolutely not -- they got what they wanted. Trump is desperately trying to get a Pyrrhic win out of Canada before what is poised to be a devastating mid-term for him, and some serious legal troubles. Canada's best bet is to just walk away, which effectively they've done (note that Canada didn't meet Trump's Friday deadline, and there is effectively zero chance of a deal because Canada will not change dairy, and will not change the ITC process).
- liftbigweights 8y ago
  If you are going to get emotional and throw insults around then I'm not going to continue this discussion with you. My advice is to stop watching so much cable news and stop getting so emotionally invested in nothing. Trump is not going to be president in 2 or at most 6 years. Life will go on. Your insults and rants only serve to make trump look better in comparison. So if you are really against trump, go outside and enjoy the labor day weekend. I'll do the same. Have a nice day.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- dang 8y ago
  > Out of which bullshit-hole did you pull that ridiculous claim? Totally not ok and will get you banned if you post like it again. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are.
danbolt 8y ago
> I guess, but goods trade deficit is still a goods trade deficit. Isn't that what trump was complaining about? He also has a bit of a habit of saying disputable or incorrect things. I think he should keep away from cable news too. ;) The ”trade deficit” numbers vary a lot depending on who you talk to. The US will send an unprocessed product from Mexico and declare it as a US export, while Canada will tally it as being from Mexico. This often leads to big differences reported between the two countries when it comes to goods. [1][2] [1] https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada [2] https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/is-trump-right-about-trade-with-canada-it-depends-who-you-ask https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/is-trump-rig...

endorphone 8y ago

"Mexico and canada specifically said NAFTA was perfect the way it was and that they would never renegotiate." LOL. No, Mexico and Canada didn't "specifically" say that, and such is a ridiculous claim. Canada had a huge list of proposed NAFTA modernizations at the ready. Canada has been a very willing partner in renegotiation until it turned out that the US side was entirely in bad faith. Out of which bullshit-hole did you pull that ridiculous claim? "No. It was also anti-canada. Especially with the midwest states" Given that most midwestern states rely heavily on Canadian trade, no, it wasn't. Wisconsin dairy farmers were swayed into thinking Canada was their problem, but that is a tiny, tiny proportion. Just to be clear -- Trump has threatened congress, and overwhelmingly US congressional and senate reps have stated that they will not accept a NAFTA without Canada, to the point that Trump has petulantly said that he will just cancel the whole thing (which he can't do, but he has illusions that he is king). How does this indicate this anti-Canada sentiment you imagine? "I guess, but goods trade deficit is still a goods trade deficit. Isn't that what trump was complaining about?" If he is an imbecile, sure? I mean, he is, but aside from that it's like saying that there's a soybean imbalance so throw it all away. It is profoundly stupid. "If trump's president is unraveling, don't you think mexico and south korea would have just waited it out?" Absolutely not -- they got what they wanted. Trump is desperately trying to get a Pyrrhic win out of Canada before what is poised to be a devastating mid-term for him, and some serious legal troubles. Canada's best bet is to just walk away, which effectively they've done (note that Canada didn't meet Trump's Friday deadline, and there is effectively zero chance of a deal because Canada will not change dairy, and will not change the ITC process).

liftbigweights 8y ago
If you are going to get emotional and throw insults around then I'm not going to continue this discussion with you. My advice is to stop watching so much cable news and stop getting so emotionally invested in nothing. Trump is not going to be president in 2 or at most 6 years. Life will go on. Your insults and rants only serve to make trump look better in comparison. So if you are really against trump, go outside and enjoy the labor day weekend. I'll do the same. Have a nice day.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dang 8y ago
> Out of which bullshit-hole did you pull that ridiculous claim? Totally not ok and will get you banned if you post like it again. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are.

danbolt 8y ago

> I guess, but goods trade deficit is still a goods trade deficit. Isn't that what trump was complaining about? He also has a bit of a habit of saying disputable or incorrect things. I think he should keep away from cable news too. ;) The ”trade deficit” numbers vary a lot depending on who you talk to. The US will send an unprocessed product from Mexico and declare it as a US export, while Canada will tally it as being from Mexico. This often leads to big differences reported between the two countries when it comes to goods. [1][2] [1] https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada [2] https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/is-trump-right-about-trade-with-canada-it-depends-who-you-ask https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/is-trump-rig...