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> There are so many obvious benefits of electric cars, as soon as they are close to cost competitive. Like what exactly? You will have to assume that I am a mo

> There are so many obvious benefits of electric cars, as soon as they are close to cost competitive. Like what exactly? You will have to assume that I am a modern man who don't give two shits about the environment, when deciding to buy a car. So can you give me one significant advantage that an electric car will give me over an ICE car, right now?

CommieBobDole 8y ago
Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. Better performance - Electronically-controlled electric motors have much better, more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE. Not just a matter of "accelerates faster", but more torque available at nearly every speed/driving condition. That's just a few off the top of my head.
- sixstringbudha 8y ago
  > Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged. We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra for electric charging is on par with a fuel refill. > Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. I don't think this is a given. Even though more complex, I think ICE cars of today are quite reliable enough. Are there any studies that compare both and say Electric cars are indeed more reliable than an average ICE car? I am not sure how reliable this is, but [1] > more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue. [1] https://www.policygenius.com/blog/how-much-does-it-actually-cost-to-own-a-tesla/ https://www.policygenius.com/blog/how-much-does-it-actually-...
  - mecameron 8y ago
    >> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. >Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged. > We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra for electric charging is on par with a fuel refill. You're really shifting the goalposts. It is much cheaper to drive electric if you can charge at home. It's true a significant number of people can't charge at home, but if they can, it's usually 25-35% of the cost of a gasoline car. I've owned BEVs for 6 years and have probably charged away from home 10 times or less and mostly it was just to get a better parking spot. >> more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE > Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue. So because you don't think it's an improvement, then it's not an improvement for anyone? If you've already decided there are no benefits to BEVs for you personally, then it doesn't matter what others say because it doesn't benefit you. Why bother asking for the benefits?
    - sixstringbudha 8y ago
      > You're really shifting the goalposts. Not really. Its just that I (and most people today) see a car as something that can take them mostly anywhere, across the country. If you see or limit the definition of a car as something that takes you anywhere within a very limited fixed radius (the range of your car on a single recharge), then your argument is fine. With a car, If you have to think of "Can I refuel where I want to go", then that car is lost the race against ICE's by a long mile. >So because you don't think it's an improvement, then it's not an improvement for anyone? Who said I am speaking for everyone here? I was only speaking of my case.
  - CommieBobDole 8y ago
    > Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce No, a related disadvantage doesn't nullify the fact of an advantage. Yes, charging stations are scarce and it takes longer to charge. It still costs less to fuel the car. > I don't think this is a given. Even though more complex, I think ICE cars of today are quite reliable enough. Well, good, I guess? Your opinion on how reliable cars ought to be isn't the subject of discussion. For what it's worth, I agree that you think ICE cars are reliable enough. > Are there any studies that compare both and say Electric cars are indeed more reliable than an average ICE car? Probably not; in general a (far) less complex mechanism is going to be more reliable. Electric cars are new and doubtless suffer from the growing pains of a new technology. Teslas in particular are full of little fit and finish issues that result in a lot of warranty work. But hey, I'll give you this one. Improved electric car reliability is not a proven fact at this point. I can't see any way a mechanism with orders of magnitude fewer moving parts won't be more reliable once it matures, but maybe there's some sort of terrible unforeseen issue. Who knows? > Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue. I agree that you hold this opinion. Others do not. Doesn't change the fact that this is an advantage. I'm not really interested in discussing this further; I suspect you're going to keep moving the goalposts. You should purchase the type of car that most closely fits your needs and wants.
davedx 8y ago
* Acceleration * No gears - acceleration is linear * No chance of diesel fumes in your cabin (like with my VW Sharan) * Lots of tax rebates, subsidies, depending on where you live * Charge at home * More room! (No bulky drivetrain) * Less maintenance, less things to go wrong * Lower fuel costs * Simpler to own and drive
- your-nanny 8y ago
  I agree with the list except the one about fuel costs. that might be true today, but price will probably have to rise too meet increased demand.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - cyrildorsaz 8y ago
    The opposite will actually happen. The rise of renewable energies will decrease energy cost dramatically. In some countries solar generation is already cheaper .
    - your-nanny 8y ago
      energy is highly regulated market, so I dunno, but in general, increased demand increases price, unless supply grows to meet demand (and there is a competitive market to drive down prices). So more EVs, more demand for electricity, and less demand for gasoline, so former might become more expensive, and the latter cheaper. what actually will happen is going to depend on long term investment decisions, changes in tech, and the specifics of industry regulation (which I'm mostly ignorant of)
- glogla 8y ago
  Charge at home if you live in a house. Sadly, for people with apartments, electric cars are super impractical, until most residential streets include charging stations.

CommieBobDole 8y ago

Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. Better performance - Electronically-controlled electric motors have much better, more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE. Not just a matter of "accelerates faster", but more torque available at nearly every speed/driving condition. That's just a few off the top of my head.

sixstringbudha 8y ago
> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged. We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra for electric charging is on par with a fuel refill. > Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. I don't think this is a given. Even though more complex, I think ICE cars of today are quite reliable enough. Are there any studies that compare both and say Electric cars are indeed more reliable than an average ICE car? I am not sure how reliable this is, but [1] > more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue. [1] https://www.policygenius.com/blog/how-much-does-it-actually-cost-to-own-a-tesla/ https://www.policygenius.com/blog/how-much-does-it-actually-...
- mecameron 8y ago
  >> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. >Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged. > We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra for electric charging is on par with a fuel refill. You're really shifting the goalposts. It is much cheaper to drive electric if you can charge at home. It's true a significant number of people can't charge at home, but if they can, it's usually 25-35% of the cost of a gasoline car. I've owned BEVs for 6 years and have probably charged away from home 10 times or less and mostly it was just to get a better parking spot. >> more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE > Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue. So because you don't think it's an improvement, then it's not an improvement for anyone? If you've already decided there are no benefits to BEVs for you personally, then it doesn't matter what others say because it doesn't benefit you. Why bother asking for the benefits?
  - sixstringbudha 8y ago
    > You're really shifting the goalposts. Not really. Its just that I (and most people today) see a car as something that can take them mostly anywhere, across the country. If you see or limit the definition of a car as something that takes you anywhere within a very limited fixed radius (the range of your car on a single recharge), then your argument is fine. With a car, If you have to think of "Can I refuel where I want to go", then that car is lost the race against ICE's by a long mile. >So because you don't think it's an improvement, then it's not an improvement for anyone? Who said I am speaking for everyone here? I was only speaking of my case.
- CommieBobDole 8y ago
  > Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce No, a related disadvantage doesn't nullify the fact of an advantage. Yes, charging stations are scarce and it takes longer to charge. It still costs less to fuel the car. > I don't think this is a given. Even though more complex, I think ICE cars of today are quite reliable enough. Well, good, I guess? Your opinion on how reliable cars ought to be isn't the subject of discussion. For what it's worth, I agree that you think ICE cars are reliable enough. > Are there any studies that compare both and say Electric cars are indeed more reliable than an average ICE car? Probably not; in general a (far) less complex mechanism is going to be more reliable. Electric cars are new and doubtless suffer from the growing pains of a new technology. Teslas in particular are full of little fit and finish issues that result in a lot of warranty work. But hey, I'll give you this one. Improved electric car reliability is not a proven fact at this point. I can't see any way a mechanism with orders of magnitude fewer moving parts won't be more reliable once it matures, but maybe there's some sort of terrible unforeseen issue. Who knows? > Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue. I agree that you hold this opinion. Others do not. Doesn't change the fact that this is an advantage. I'm not really interested in discussing this further; I suspect you're going to keep moving the goalposts. You should purchase the type of car that most closely fits your needs and wants.

davedx 8y ago

* Acceleration * No gears - acceleration is linear * No chance of diesel fumes in your cabin (like with my VW Sharan) * Lots of tax rebates, subsidies, depending on where you live * Charge at home * More room! (No bulky drivetrain) * Less maintenance, less things to go wrong * Lower fuel costs * Simpler to own and drive

your-nanny 8y ago
I agree with the list except the one about fuel costs. that might be true today, but price will probably have to rise too meet increased demand.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cyrildorsaz 8y ago
  The opposite will actually happen. The rise of renewable energies will decrease energy cost dramatically. In some countries solar generation is already cheaper .
  - your-nanny 8y ago
    energy is highly regulated market, so I dunno, but in general, increased demand increases price, unless supply grows to meet demand (and there is a competitive market to drive down prices). So more EVs, more demand for electricity, and less demand for gasoline, so former might become more expensive, and the latter cheaper. what actually will happen is going to depend on long term investment decisions, changes in tech, and the specifics of industry regulation (which I'm mostly ignorant of)
glogla 8y ago
Charge at home if you live in a house. Sadly, for people with apartments, electric cars are super impractical, until most residential streets include charging stations.