3 ms·

As we seem to be comparing India and China as non natives of either; I visit both China and India a lot (over 10x a year for both, India Jaipur, Delhi and Mumba

As we seem to be comparing India and China as non natives of either; I visit both China and India a lot (over 10x a year for both, India Jaipur, Delhi and Mumbai) and although I know China is worse (as a surveillance/free country), India feels far worse. It is, for me, the worst country to travel to and work in. It feels like a bad police state; terrorists have won as they (the gov) locked things down and freedom of movement is restricted to the point I would not mind never going there again.

vinay427 8y ago
Can you provide some examples? The only ones I can recall for physical freedom are mostly by private entities, such as metal detectors at movie theaters and banks, though the armed military (?) outside airport entrances are obviously not. Fraud/corruption/money laundering prevention regulations are definitely an incredible hindrance to opening and keeping a bank account in India, however.
- tluyben2 8y ago
  The metal detectors and bag inspections are everywhere; supermarkets, malls, hotels and every time you enter even if it is the hotel you stay in all the time for months. Most businesses have guards with guns (rifles often) outside the entrance as well as bag scanners and bag checkers/friskers. Small and big airports where you can be checked and scanned 3-4 times from entrance to flight. And flying into an airport they check again. And not by friendly people either (contrary to China strangely where border patrol often have a little friendly chat to practice their english; had my bag checked 0 times coming in). Cannot enter an airport before a few hours before your flight even if you have lounge access. Guard said ‘terrorism’ when I asked why (for the umpteenth time as they usually do not answer). And yes, my friends with businesses who live there complain about the corruption restrictions. But I think that part goes for China as well. Edit; as I hear from my friends, it all got really bad only like 5 years ago. I did not go then; I have been going for 3.
  - intended 8y ago
    I think that tracked with the pakistani attack on mumbai, where they specifically targeted hotels and other soft targets. India has had a lot of terrorist attacks on its soil over the past 40 years. I know of at least 5 major attacks in mumbai alone. That said, after the TSA was created, flying in America became a pain.
  - lake99 8y ago
    I usually walk around with a backpack. And yes, the bag gets scanned and I get frisked every time I enter a mall or a local metro station. The only time I was asked not not bring something in was at a cinema, where food and drinks from outside were not allowed. I've had to face similar restrictions at European cinemas too. Apart from that, these scanners and friskers have not restricted my movement in any way. I think the only time I saw someone get turned away was after a bomb blast at a cinema. It was some dude with a computer SMPS in his backpack -- I knew what it was, but the security guard didn't. But that was just once in my lifetime. I'm not (blindly) defensive of India just because I happen to be Indian. There are plenty of things wrong with India. But this isn't one of them.
  - wtmt 8y ago
    > The metal detectors and bag inspections are everywhere; supermarkets, malls, hotels and every time you enter even if it is the hotel you stay in all the time for months. Most businesses have guards with guns (rifles often) outside the entrance as well as bag scanners and bag checkers/friskers. The metal detectors are just security theater in almost every single place except at airports. When the person doing the checks is asked what it is they hope to find or detect, the answer usually is that they've been told to wave it around. It's just an inconvenience to people than anything to do with security as such.
intended 8y ago
Yup, thats the appeal of china. Its quite possible, that the China model is a better looking model for most countries - once you get over the lack of freedoms part. Also china has way more money than India and time investment in its structures. If it turns out that China has actual deep self correcting ability, even with a centralized command structure, I expect most countries to follow suit in some way or form. But I must ask, where is freedom of movement restricted in India, unless you are in states where effectively martial law has been imposed?

vinay427 8y ago

Can you provide some examples? The only ones I can recall for physical freedom are mostly by private entities, such as metal detectors at movie theaters and banks, though the armed military (?) outside airport entrances are obviously not. Fraud/corruption/money laundering prevention regulations are definitely an incredible hindrance to opening and keeping a bank account in India, however.

tluyben2 8y ago
The metal detectors and bag inspections are everywhere; supermarkets, malls, hotels and every time you enter even if it is the hotel you stay in all the time for months. Most businesses have guards with guns (rifles often) outside the entrance as well as bag scanners and bag checkers/friskers. Small and big airports where you can be checked and scanned 3-4 times from entrance to flight. And flying into an airport they check again. And not by friendly people either (contrary to China strangely where border patrol often have a little friendly chat to practice their english; had my bag checked 0 times coming in). Cannot enter an airport before a few hours before your flight even if you have lounge access. Guard said ‘terrorism’ when I asked why (for the umpteenth time as they usually do not answer). And yes, my friends with businesses who live there complain about the corruption restrictions. But I think that part goes for China as well. Edit; as I hear from my friends, it all got really bad only like 5 years ago. I did not go then; I have been going for 3.
- intended 8y ago
  I think that tracked with the pakistani attack on mumbai, where they specifically targeted hotels and other soft targets. India has had a lot of terrorist attacks on its soil over the past 40 years. I know of at least 5 major attacks in mumbai alone. That said, after the TSA was created, flying in America became a pain.
- lake99 8y ago
  I usually walk around with a backpack. And yes, the bag gets scanned and I get frisked every time I enter a mall or a local metro station. The only time I was asked not not bring something in was at a cinema, where food and drinks from outside were not allowed. I've had to face similar restrictions at European cinemas too. Apart from that, these scanners and friskers have not restricted my movement in any way. I think the only time I saw someone get turned away was after a bomb blast at a cinema. It was some dude with a computer SMPS in his backpack -- I knew what it was, but the security guard didn't. But that was just once in my lifetime. I'm not (blindly) defensive of India just because I happen to be Indian. There are plenty of things wrong with India. But this isn't one of them.
- wtmt 8y ago
  > The metal detectors and bag inspections are everywhere; supermarkets, malls, hotels and every time you enter even if it is the hotel you stay in all the time for months. Most businesses have guards with guns (rifles often) outside the entrance as well as bag scanners and bag checkers/friskers. The metal detectors are just security theater in almost every single place except at airports. When the person doing the checks is asked what it is they hope to find or detect, the answer usually is that they've been told to wave it around. It's just an inconvenience to people than anything to do with security as such.

intended 8y ago

Yup, thats the appeal of china. Its quite possible, that the China model is a better looking model for most countries - once you get over the lack of freedoms part. Also china has way more money than India and time investment in its structures. If it turns out that China has actual deep self correcting ability, even with a centralized command structure, I expect most countries to follow suit in some way or form. But I must ask, where is freedom of movement restricted in India, unless you are in states where effectively martial law has been imposed?