4 ms·

Try to sell a 5 year old vehicle of let’s say 35k original price when it needs an $10k repair to get a new battery and dump the half tone of environmentally fri

Try to sell a 5 year old vehicle of let’s say 35k original price when it needs an $10k repair to get a new battery and dump the half tone of environmentally friendly junk. More importantly, convince the truck drivers with 150k miles per year that they will have to dispose their truck ever 2-3 years (1000 charges). Electric vehicles will take over when a battery breakthrough occurs, one that affects recharge time, weight and longevity.

nerdface 8y ago
I think once we get hot-swappable batteries then it'll really kick start the industry. The only problem is Li-Ion isn't recyclable or easily disposable.
- whatever1 8y ago
  Yes I really wonder why Tesla did not pitch this, specially for their truck offering. I think it would be technically feasible to replace the battery within 5’ if the drivetrain was designed from the ground up having this in mind. The “charging” facilities would be more expensive than the superchargers, but still...
  - FullyFunctional 8y ago
    Because they actually tried it and the demand was not there. They had a battery swap station in LA. I posit that the people enthusiastic about battery swaps aren't EV owners [yet]. There are too many practical issues with battery swaps, and larger batteries and superchargers are simply better answers. Battery swaps will never be a thing. EDIT: Better Place(TM) were pushing this very concept and had a LARGE presence in pilot countries, including Denmark. They flopped.
    - whatever1 8y ago
      Most importantly it transfers the liability for the battery health from the user to the manufacturer which would be a huge pro-ev argument for commercial purpose vehicles.
      - _ph_ 8y ago
        Renault and Nissan offer to rent the batteries while buying the car at a reduced price. The rental batteries will get changed at the cost for the manufacturer, if they are out of spec.
Tuxer 8y ago
The first model Ss that have hit 10 years and 200k miles have shown an average of 3% battery capacity decrease. Car batteries aren't phone batteries :)
- FullyFunctional 8y ago
  AND, that used battery is highly valuable still (useful for power walls). That line of argument is pure unconcealed FUD.
  - whatever1 8y ago
    Why then the manufacturers don’t just buy them back and give you the new one for peanuts ?
    - FullyFunctional 8y ago
      They do buy them back, but the new one isn't peanuts [EDIT: I don't exactly know the current cost of a new battery]. Also: it's not a sudden cliff, but a gradual degradation and 10 years is very conservative. BTW: I have read that there is a big demand for used Tesla batteries from a sizable DIY powerwall crowd.
- xedeon 8y ago
  400K miles actually! https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000-miles-3-years/ https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000...
- davidgould 8y ago
  Has it really been 10 years since the Model S came out? ..., well, maybe a very short 10 years - the Model S came out in 2012.

nerdface 8y ago

I think once we get hot-swappable batteries then it'll really kick start the industry. The only problem is Li-Ion isn't recyclable or easily disposable.

whatever1 8y ago
Yes I really wonder why Tesla did not pitch this, specially for their truck offering. I think it would be technically feasible to replace the battery within 5’ if the drivetrain was designed from the ground up having this in mind. The “charging” facilities would be more expensive than the superchargers, but still...
- FullyFunctional 8y ago
  Because they actually tried it and the demand was not there. They had a battery swap station in LA. I posit that the people enthusiastic about battery swaps aren't EV owners [yet]. There are too many practical issues with battery swaps, and larger batteries and superchargers are simply better answers. Battery swaps will never be a thing. EDIT: Better Place(TM) were pushing this very concept and had a LARGE presence in pilot countries, including Denmark. They flopped.
  - whatever1 8y ago
    Most importantly it transfers the liability for the battery health from the user to the manufacturer which would be a huge pro-ev argument for commercial purpose vehicles.
    - _ph_ 8y ago
      Renault and Nissan offer to rent the batteries while buying the car at a reduced price. The rental batteries will get changed at the cost for the manufacturer, if they are out of spec.

Tuxer 8y ago

The first model Ss that have hit 10 years and 200k miles have shown an average of 3% battery capacity decrease. Car batteries aren't phone batteries :)

FullyFunctional 8y ago
AND, that used battery is highly valuable still (useful for power walls). That line of argument is pure unconcealed FUD.
- whatever1 8y ago
  Why then the manufacturers don’t just buy them back and give you the new one for peanuts ?
  - FullyFunctional 8y ago
    They do buy them back, but the new one isn't peanuts [EDIT: I don't exactly know the current cost of a new battery]. Also: it's not a sudden cliff, but a gradual degradation and 10 years is very conservative. BTW: I have read that there is a big demand for used Tesla batteries from a sizable DIY powerwall crowd.
xedeon 8y ago
400K miles actually! https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000-miles-3-years/ https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000...
davidgould 8y ago
Has it really been 10 years since the Model S came out? ..., well, maybe a very short 10 years - the Model S came out in 2012.