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People have been saying that for a very long time, and every decade or two someone bets real money and loses horribly. I think the last time was Kamen thinking

People have been saying that for a very long time, and every decade or two someone bets real money and loses horribly. I think the last time was Kamen thinking the Segway would change human transportation forever. Such visionaries tend to conveniently forget people who have families with kids, the price, and the fact that if their device can’t totally replace a car then it’s just an added expense many can’t afford.

octorian 8y ago
This is why any half-measure is kinda a waste. The overhead to "rent something for the occasional need" is far more of a real-world hassle than people are willing to put up with. Also, having kids dramatically changes what you need in a vehicle, in ways that make any ride-sharing or rental option a significantly greater pain than it would otherwise be.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
soperj 8y ago
And yet tons of people do it in europe with kids because the infrastructure exists.
- GW150914 8y ago
  You mean the rich, temperate parts of Western Europe, most of which could fit inside Texas? Sure. If you’re being more honest it’s the urban areas of the richer, temperate parts of Weatern Europe, which is an even smaller geographic area with a total population that’s less than the US, or about 1/5th of China or India. I love cycling in Paris and Amsterdam, not so much in New York City in the winter. I also wouldn’t love to do weekly shopping for a family of 4+ using a Segway and public transportation. Edit: I’m curious if those downvotes represent disagreement, or just distaste.
  - dagss 8y ago
    Probably because you talk about size of population on the level of countries/continents which is clearly irrelevant to the question here (where population of an individual city is what matters, at best). So not distaste or disagreement, but irrelevance. If you think "Europe has a smaller population than US" is relevant to whether using public transport where the infrastructure exists is possible for families then you need to state why more clearly.
  - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
    I live in Norway, in a city of 180-200k people. Folks use public transportation or walking all the time. With children. For everyday food shopping. You don't need to shop only once a week - 2-3 times makes carrying your goods easier. You can dress for the weather. It isn't all that big of a deal. Children in strollers have warm stuff around them. They sell bikes with studded tires for use on snow. It was tiring when I first moved here, but you get used to it and it isn't a big deal. Kids get used to walking and will sometimes even help carry things back. I'd more argue that the real reason it doesn't work so well in much of the states is because the public transportation sucks. Walkways suck most places - half the towns I lived in didn't even make sure you could walk to the stores on sidewalks. More people were expected to work 50-60 hours a week on top of this. Poor folks sometimes work two jobs. Many employers don't have secure places to put your stuff while you are at work (no bike racks, no locker to put your winter gear or umbrella in). Fixing these problems help greatly.
    - pixl97 8y ago
      No,it is not because transportation sucks... Its because things are built in a manner optimized for automobile transportation. Fixing sidewalks isn't going to fix mega grocery stores miles and miles apart. Places where people walk/bike tend to have a business infrastructure built to support it.
      - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        That is part of it as well in some areas. That doesn't really answer why public transportation sucks, though - busses are large automobiles and use the same network. But it doesn't matter how far you live either. I've often lived within a mile of grocery stores, but the infrastructure isn't there. There isn't always even a sidewalk to get to bus stops. Sometimes the bus stop is just a sign, no sidewalk. Busses rarely go inter-city and often don't go to workplaces on the outskirts of town (at least not in many smallish cities). They aren't efficient. Why would anywhere build smaller stores similar to walkable places when the infrastructure isn't there, anyway?
sam_goody 8y ago
Out where I live, the electric bike is as common as a regular bike. When I first saw one, people said it was a useless half measure - if you don't want to peddle, you would take the car. The has proven wrong, and as time goes by, the reverse happens - it replaces the car. You should realize that many people who buy these scooters and electric bikes are doing so to replace the bike, not the car. But then over time it replaces the car for 90% of the trips.
- GW150914 8y ago
  Electric bikes are a huge improvement over standard bikes, and no improvement at all over a car for a significant number of use cases. They’re also no more useful than a bike in places where roads are poorly maintained, rain and snow are frequent, or no bike lanes exist. They’re not useful for taking kids to school, or doing significant errands. They are amazing for a single person to get around cheaply without killing themselves on every hill, and probably a godsend in SV. Most of the world doesn’t have SV’s weather though, and a lot of people have kids. Electric bikes and scooters are very cool, but they’re no more a solution to the car in most cases than a motorcycle or Segway. They do nothing for people with long commutes, or who live in spread-out suburbs. No one is trading in their minivan for a moped.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    > They’re not useful for taking kids to school, Where I live a few hundred thousand kids are taken to school by bike every day. All the way up to age 10 or so it's pretty common to see parents with kids on the back (and sometimes on the front or both) of their bikes. https://www.24baby.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mamafiets.jpg https://www.24baby.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mamafiets.j...
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Even in Brussels, with its heavy traffic and unseparated bike lanes, there are quite a few parents taking kids around on bike.
    - 8y ago

octorian 8y ago

This is why any half-measure is kinda a waste. The overhead to "rent something for the occasional need" is far more of a real-world hassle than people are willing to put up with. Also, having kids dramatically changes what you need in a vehicle, in ways that make any ride-sharing or rental option a significantly greater pain than it would otherwise be.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

soperj 8y ago

And yet tons of people do it in europe with kids because the infrastructure exists.

GW150914 8y ago
You mean the rich, temperate parts of Western Europe, most of which could fit inside Texas? Sure. If you’re being more honest it’s the urban areas of the richer, temperate parts of Weatern Europe, which is an even smaller geographic area with a total population that’s less than the US, or about 1/5th of China or India. I love cycling in Paris and Amsterdam, not so much in New York City in the winter. I also wouldn’t love to do weekly shopping for a family of 4+ using a Segway and public transportation. Edit: I’m curious if those downvotes represent disagreement, or just distaste.
- dagss 8y ago
  Probably because you talk about size of population on the level of countries/continents which is clearly irrelevant to the question here (where population of an individual city is what matters, at best). So not distaste or disagreement, but irrelevance. If you think "Europe has a smaller population than US" is relevant to whether using public transport where the infrastructure exists is possible for families then you need to state why more clearly.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  I live in Norway, in a city of 180-200k people. Folks use public transportation or walking all the time. With children. For everyday food shopping. You don't need to shop only once a week - 2-3 times makes carrying your goods easier. You can dress for the weather. It isn't all that big of a deal. Children in strollers have warm stuff around them. They sell bikes with studded tires for use on snow. It was tiring when I first moved here, but you get used to it and it isn't a big deal. Kids get used to walking and will sometimes even help carry things back. I'd more argue that the real reason it doesn't work so well in much of the states is because the public transportation sucks. Walkways suck most places - half the towns I lived in didn't even make sure you could walk to the stores on sidewalks. More people were expected to work 50-60 hours a week on top of this. Poor folks sometimes work two jobs. Many employers don't have secure places to put your stuff while you are at work (no bike racks, no locker to put your winter gear or umbrella in). Fixing these problems help greatly.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    No,it is not because transportation sucks... Its because things are built in a manner optimized for automobile transportation. Fixing sidewalks isn't going to fix mega grocery stores miles and miles apart. Places where people walk/bike tend to have a business infrastructure built to support it.
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      That is part of it as well in some areas. That doesn't really answer why public transportation sucks, though - busses are large automobiles and use the same network. But it doesn't matter how far you live either. I've often lived within a mile of grocery stores, but the infrastructure isn't there. There isn't always even a sidewalk to get to bus stops. Sometimes the bus stop is just a sign, no sidewalk. Busses rarely go inter-city and often don't go to workplaces on the outskirts of town (at least not in many smallish cities). They aren't efficient. Why would anywhere build smaller stores similar to walkable places when the infrastructure isn't there, anyway?

sam_goody 8y ago

Out where I live, the electric bike is as common as a regular bike. When I first saw one, people said it was a useless half measure - if you don't want to peddle, you would take the car. The has proven wrong, and as time goes by, the reverse happens - it replaces the car. You should realize that many people who buy these scooters and electric bikes are doing so to replace the bike, not the car. But then over time it replaces the car for 90% of the trips.

GW150914 8y ago
Electric bikes are a huge improvement over standard bikes, and no improvement at all over a car for a significant number of use cases. They’re also no more useful than a bike in places where roads are poorly maintained, rain and snow are frequent, or no bike lanes exist. They’re not useful for taking kids to school, or doing significant errands. They are amazing for a single person to get around cheaply without killing themselves on every hill, and probably a godsend in SV. Most of the world doesn’t have SV’s weather though, and a lot of people have kids. Electric bikes and scooters are very cool, but they’re no more a solution to the car in most cases than a motorcycle or Segway. They do nothing for people with long commutes, or who live in spread-out suburbs. No one is trading in their minivan for a moped.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  > They’re not useful for taking kids to school, Where I live a few hundred thousand kids are taken to school by bike every day. All the way up to age 10 or so it's pretty common to see parents with kids on the back (and sometimes on the front or both) of their bikes. https://www.24baby.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mamafiets.jpg https://www.24baby.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mamafiets.j...
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Even in Brussels, with its heavy traffic and unseparated bike lanes, there are quite a few parents taking kids around on bike.
  - 8y ago