4 ms·

The prices have to come down too. the Electric cars are 5-6 times more expensive than the normal cars. By cheap normal cars i meant Hyundai Accent which costs $

The prices have to come down too. the Electric cars are 5-6 times more expensive than the normal cars. By cheap normal cars i meant Hyundai Accent which costs $14,995, Or Toyota Yaris $16000 or Chevrolet Sonic $20K or a ford fiesta $14K.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
They will come down when more people buy them. Manufacturing efficiencies aren't magic. There are tens of billions of dollars of R&D and capex that need to be amortized. Also, while an EVs upfront costs are higher, the total cost of ownership is lower, as an EV costs about half as much (per mile) [1] as an internal combustion vehicle to operate. [1] https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf (Obligatory PDF warning)
xyzzyz 8y ago
What? A normal car costs something like $30k. Electric cars don't cost $150-180k.
- wwweston 8y ago
  If you're a lifelong buyer of used cars, the perception matches pretty closely. I've never bought a car for more than $4000 (and FWIW the used buys I've made have had a minimum reliable life of 5 years, and max repair costs before abandonment of another $4k). I don't know what the used EV market is like right now. I don't remember seeing any. Then again, EVs are relatively new and rarer than ICEVs so I wouldn't expect them to have a big profile in used vehicle listings. (If I were guessing, I'd speculate the economy choice for EVs right now might be some kind of conversion of a failed/old ICEV, but that's uninformed speculation...)
  - CamelCaseName 8y ago
    Any advice on models or tactics for buying a used car? I have been struggling to find something for nearly 2 months now. All I really need is inexpensive.
    - wwweston 8y ago
      FWIW ~2 months has sometimes been time it's taken me to find the used car deals I was looking for. Once I've been immensely lucky and stumbled on an incredible deal quickly. More often it's in between. I'm not an expert, but my tips: figure out your budget (mine is usually $2-4k). Then cast a broad net for cars that have less than 120k miles. Many cars made in the last 20 years have upwards of 150-200k in them. So starting here is going to give you potential for ~50k at the cost of a down payment. It can help if you have a few models in mind that you know tend to have particularly long lives or tend to be undervalued (my favorite for a while was the Geo Prizm, which is a rebadged and therefore discounted Corolla, I've also had two Oldsmobile Cutlass Cieras that went into the 200k range... but these were both discontinued 15-20 years ago and good ones are getting rare). Do your own filtering on the health of the car. I'm not even an amateur auto mechanic but I have a few heuristics: is the temperature stable over a range of driving conditions from idling to hill loads or freeway? What kind of oil leaks do I see? Also I like visible brake & gas pedal wear as a proxy for general vehicle wear. If a car doesn't have any obvious problems on these points, fits my cost/miles profile, and I like it, then I take it to a professional mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection and follow their advice. If the mechanic notes some needed non-powertrain repairs that fit inside the budget, I'll usually buy, perhaps after some negotiation. There's a downside to this approach: it can be time-intensive. If you're well-compensated with your job (or you're doing a startup, or you're a new parent, or you have some other time-intensive thing going on in your life), your time may more valuable than the economizing this approach can yield. It goes faster if you let out the parameters a bit (bump up the budget and take down the mileage). In most sufficiently large cities there's probably a <$10k Toyota with less than 70k miles on it out there that you can find within a week that will give you trouble-free driving for years. If you want more tips, Google Greg Macke, who seems to have some sensible advice about evaluating cars and has some recommended/lemon lists.
  - sremani 8y ago
    Look for a used Chevy Volt, you should be able to get it around 10K USD (2012-2014 models). I am not fan of Nissan Leaf earlier models given the range anxiety and their battery being air-cooled, which you can find for almost rock bottom prices. Plug-in hybrids like Chevy Volt, Prius Prime and Pacifica PHEV are in my opinion real sleepers that do not get media love.
ricardobeat 8y ago
That's just not true. You can buy the Hyunday Ioniq for €32k, €38k for the maxed up model, Kona Electric for €40k with 500km range, soon the Kia Niro EV for €38k. These prices are only 20-30% higher than their ICE versions, and there are _many_ normal cars that go beyond this in the same categories.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
woodandsteel 8y ago
>The prices have to come down too. the Electric cars are 5-6 times more expensive than the normal cars. No they're not. More like 25%-50% more expensive, and the difference keeps narrowing.
- trocadero 8y ago
  Plus you have to look at the total operating cost. Electric cars need basically no maintenance while ICEs you have oil changes and brake changes plus a more complicated engine.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

They will come down when more people buy them. Manufacturing efficiencies aren't magic. There are tens of billions of dollars of R&D and capex that need to be amortized. Also, while an EVs upfront costs are higher, the total cost of ownership is lower, as an EV costs about half as much (per mile) [1] as an internal combustion vehicle to operate. [1] https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf (Obligatory PDF warning)

xyzzyz 8y ago

What? A normal car costs something like $30k. Electric cars don't cost $150-180k.

wwweston 8y ago
If you're a lifelong buyer of used cars, the perception matches pretty closely. I've never bought a car for more than $4000 (and FWIW the used buys I've made have had a minimum reliable life of 5 years, and max repair costs before abandonment of another $4k). I don't know what the used EV market is like right now. I don't remember seeing any. Then again, EVs are relatively new and rarer than ICEVs so I wouldn't expect them to have a big profile in used vehicle listings. (If I were guessing, I'd speculate the economy choice for EVs right now might be some kind of conversion of a failed/old ICEV, but that's uninformed speculation...)
- CamelCaseName 8y ago
  Any advice on models or tactics for buying a used car? I have been struggling to find something for nearly 2 months now. All I really need is inexpensive.
  - wwweston 8y ago
    FWIW ~2 months has sometimes been time it's taken me to find the used car deals I was looking for. Once I've been immensely lucky and stumbled on an incredible deal quickly. More often it's in between. I'm not an expert, but my tips: figure out your budget (mine is usually $2-4k). Then cast a broad net for cars that have less than 120k miles. Many cars made in the last 20 years have upwards of 150-200k in them. So starting here is going to give you potential for ~50k at the cost of a down payment. It can help if you have a few models in mind that you know tend to have particularly long lives or tend to be undervalued (my favorite for a while was the Geo Prizm, which is a rebadged and therefore discounted Corolla, I've also had two Oldsmobile Cutlass Cieras that went into the 200k range... but these were both discontinued 15-20 years ago and good ones are getting rare). Do your own filtering on the health of the car. I'm not even an amateur auto mechanic but I have a few heuristics: is the temperature stable over a range of driving conditions from idling to hill loads or freeway? What kind of oil leaks do I see? Also I like visible brake & gas pedal wear as a proxy for general vehicle wear. If a car doesn't have any obvious problems on these points, fits my cost/miles profile, and I like it, then I take it to a professional mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection and follow their advice. If the mechanic notes some needed non-powertrain repairs that fit inside the budget, I'll usually buy, perhaps after some negotiation. There's a downside to this approach: it can be time-intensive. If you're well-compensated with your job (or you're doing a startup, or you're a new parent, or you have some other time-intensive thing going on in your life), your time may more valuable than the economizing this approach can yield. It goes faster if you let out the parameters a bit (bump up the budget and take down the mileage). In most sufficiently large cities there's probably a <$10k Toyota with less than 70k miles on it out there that you can find within a week that will give you trouble-free driving for years. If you want more tips, Google Greg Macke, who seems to have some sensible advice about evaluating cars and has some recommended/lemon lists.
- sremani 8y ago
  Look for a used Chevy Volt, you should be able to get it around 10K USD (2012-2014 models). I am not fan of Nissan Leaf earlier models given the range anxiety and their battery being air-cooled, which you can find for almost rock bottom prices. Plug-in hybrids like Chevy Volt, Prius Prime and Pacifica PHEV are in my opinion real sleepers that do not get media love.

ricardobeat 8y ago

That's just not true. You can buy the Hyunday Ioniq for €32k, €38k for the maxed up model, Kona Electric for €40k with 500km range, soon the Kia Niro EV for €38k. These prices are only 20-30% higher than their ICE versions, and there are _many_ normal cars that go beyond this in the same categories.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

woodandsteel 8y ago

>The prices have to come down too. the Electric cars are 5-6 times more expensive than the normal cars. No they're not. More like 25%-50% more expensive, and the difference keeps narrowing.

trocadero 8y ago
Plus you have to look at the total operating cost. Electric cars need basically no maintenance while ICEs you have oil changes and brake changes plus a more complicated engine.