5 ms·

In first world countries it's not difficult at all given two conditions. 1. You have a good job (probably - but not necessarily - a professional job) 2. You a

by grecy 8y ago

In first world countries it's not difficult at all given two conditions. 1. You have a good job (probably - but not necessarily - a professional job) 2. You are willing to spend less money than other people. And in fact, point 2 is way more important than point 1. The secret to having more money is not to earn more, it's to spend less. I'm 36 and I have quit and done what I wanted twice in my life now - once for 2 years I drove AK-Argentina, now I'm well over 2 years driving around Africa. Before both jaunts I earned a mere fraction of what Bay area salaries appear to be. Before Argentina my salary was $48k CAD. The trick is simply to spend less. Don't upgrade your phone (or don't even have one), don't eat out. Walk or ride to work, no TV, no Netflix, etc. etc. Pretty soon you'll find you have way more money than you actually need, and you can choose to work either part time, or not work at all for a while. If you were willing to put in 10-15 years of this frugal life, you'd have enough money to never work again, easily. EDIT: Because everyone always asks how I do it, I wrote a book about how I do this with my life: http://theroadchoseme.com/work-less-to-live-your-dreams http://theroadchoseme.com/work-less-to-live-your-dreams

GuiA 8y ago
This is such an important point. I have friends who routinely go out for $300+ dinners, and then complain about having near empty savings account. It’s honestly quite shocking, coming from software engineers who are (supposedly) analytically/numerically minded.
atr_gz 8y ago
I thought you were broke and in debt when you left for Africa? That doesn't make your post wrong, but you're really shoehorning your book into a thread that doesn't have much to do with your path.
- grecy 8y ago
  I was not even close to broke or in debt, and I'm still not 2.5 years later. Reddit read my story and came up with that story, when the story really was "I screwed up and lost some budgeted travel money, now I'll have to be more careful about my spendings".
  - atr_gz 8y ago
    Sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought there was some problem with the engine in your Jeep and you had to buy a new one and finance the trip on credit - I was going off what I remember of your words, not Reddit people. If you managed to make it without debt because of your book sales, congratulations! That's impressive.
    - grecy 8y ago
      I did lose some money,yes, but it was not nearly enough to mean I had to finance the trip on credit. Also book sales are not the reason, the reason is that I cut down on expenses. I camped for free for months and months in West Africa, spending as little as $500/mo for absolutely everything for many months in a row.
vilmosi 8y ago
> The secret to having more money is not to earn more, it's to spend less. I honestly thought it was the complete opposite? The whole "being poor is expensive" thing? That buying expensive shoes is economically better longer term vs buying cheap shoes?
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  Typing a paragraph of nuance isn't as easy. Of course BIFL is better if you can afford it. It also means not keeping up with the Joneses, spending money out all the time, buying more than you need.
- shoo 8y ago
  You're both right, but you're both speaking casually so it's hard to understand precisely what you're saying. Here's my take on it: At least from a perspective of early retirement, if you can change your lifestyle so you can sustainably spend less, then (i) while you are working, you can save more money, due to lower expenses, and (ii) provided you are willing to continue living frugally after retirement, you don't need to build up as much capital to fund retirements from investment returns, as your post-retirement expenses are also lower. I think the second factor makes a bigger impact than the former one. The point you make is also a good one: people with more wealth and resources are in a better position to make longer-term investments, which can help them save or make even more money in the long run. The two heuristics "spend less" and "earn more" aren't always in conflict, you can often find opportunities that strictly improve one without damaging the other one.
- muzz 8y ago
  I'm not the GP, but spending less is not the same as being poor. The former is about having options, the latter is lack of options. Poor people have to buy the cheaper shoes because that's all they have enough money for (compared to a wealthier person who made the decision based on average cost over time, even if the initial outlay was more).
- grecy 8y ago
  The reason that earning more never works out is because the more you work (and attempt to earn) your actual money in hand asymptotes and you're not getting reward for your effort & time. Taxes go up the more you earn. You'll spend more on food and stuff the more you work because you're more tired, you'll spend more when you earn more (b/c the goldfish fills the bowl), you will be surrounded by people who earn more, so you'll live the "high life", etc. etc. Also it's a bit of a play on words, because when you spend less, you'll realize you need less, and so it will appear you have more.
tanin 8y ago
From what I've seen, it seems to be the other way around. As we get better linearly (e.g. code faster), our income increases somewhat exponentially. So, it seems like a better strategy to try to earn more. Not to mention that having more money will potentially earn you more as well. Ranked tennis players and their earnings are a good example. It seems true in a company setting as well.

by grecy 8y ago

GuiA 8y ago

This is such an important point. I have friends who routinely go out for $300+ dinners, and then complain about having near empty savings account. It’s honestly quite shocking, coming from software engineers who are (supposedly) analytically/numerically minded.

atr_gz 8y ago

I thought you were broke and in debt when you left for Africa? That doesn't make your post wrong, but you're really shoehorning your book into a thread that doesn't have much to do with your path.

grecy 8y ago
I was not even close to broke or in debt, and I'm still not 2.5 years later. Reddit read my story and came up with that story, when the story really was "I screwed up and lost some budgeted travel money, now I'll have to be more careful about my spendings".
- atr_gz 8y ago
  Sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought there was some problem with the engine in your Jeep and you had to buy a new one and finance the trip on credit - I was going off what I remember of your words, not Reddit people. If you managed to make it without debt because of your book sales, congratulations! That's impressive.
  - grecy 8y ago
    I did lose some money,yes, but it was not nearly enough to mean I had to finance the trip on credit. Also book sales are not the reason, the reason is that I cut down on expenses. I camped for free for months and months in West Africa, spending as little as $500/mo for absolutely everything for many months in a row.

vilmosi 8y ago

> The secret to having more money is not to earn more, it's to spend less. I honestly thought it was the complete opposite? The whole "being poor is expensive" thing? That buying expensive shoes is economically better longer term vs buying cheap shoes?

unethical_ban 8y ago
Typing a paragraph of nuance isn't as easy. Of course BIFL is better if you can afford it. It also means not keeping up with the Joneses, spending money out all the time, buying more than you need.
shoo 8y ago
You're both right, but you're both speaking casually so it's hard to understand precisely what you're saying. Here's my take on it: At least from a perspective of early retirement, if you can change your lifestyle so you can sustainably spend less, then (i) while you are working, you can save more money, due to lower expenses, and (ii) provided you are willing to continue living frugally after retirement, you don't need to build up as much capital to fund retirements from investment returns, as your post-retirement expenses are also lower. I think the second factor makes a bigger impact than the former one. The point you make is also a good one: people with more wealth and resources are in a better position to make longer-term investments, which can help them save or make even more money in the long run. The two heuristics "spend less" and "earn more" aren't always in conflict, you can often find opportunities that strictly improve one without damaging the other one.
muzz 8y ago
I'm not the GP, but spending less is not the same as being poor. The former is about having options, the latter is lack of options. Poor people have to buy the cheaper shoes because that's all they have enough money for (compared to a wealthier person who made the decision based on average cost over time, even if the initial outlay was more).
grecy 8y ago
The reason that earning more never works out is because the more you work (and attempt to earn) your actual money in hand asymptotes and you're not getting reward for your effort & time. Taxes go up the more you earn. You'll spend more on food and stuff the more you work because you're more tired, you'll spend more when you earn more (b/c the goldfish fills the bowl), you will be surrounded by people who earn more, so you'll live the "high life", etc. etc. Also it's a bit of a play on words, because when you spend less, you'll realize you need less, and so it will appear you have more.

tanin 8y ago

From what I've seen, it seems to be the other way around. As we get better linearly (e.g. code faster), our income increases somewhat exponentially. So, it seems like a better strategy to try to earn more. Not to mention that having more money will potentially earn you more as well. Ranked tennis players and their earnings are a good example. It seems true in a company setting as well.