4 ms·

Seems like they're always bitching about something. How about innovating, guys?

rayiner 8y ago
Innovation is what you need to do if people don’t want your product. Here, people clearly want the product, so how would innovation help?
- mikeash 8y ago
  I don’t think this is quite correct. “Want to pay for your product” would be more accurate here.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Well, would these people still not want to pay for that product, if paying was the only way to get it?
- Kenji 8y ago
  If the product is DRM-ridden garbage music platforms, vendor lock-in and being forced to buy specific devices, then no, I don't want the product. I want clean MP3 or FLAC downloads, such that I own the product I bought and nobody can take it away from me. That is why I've spent hundreds of dollars (or more? I've lost count) on Bandcamp.com and will continue to do so.
- bArray 8y ago
  Innovation takes many forms, sometimes in selling a product, sometimes in securing a product's exclusivity - such as DRM. Look only as far as YouTube to see what content creators do when the money well dries up - a lot have turned to selling products/advertising themselves with direct deals (dollar shave club, Nord VPN, etc). Another method is through "merch", something Disney for example has been doing for years. Besides, many Countries simply don't respect media copyright full-stop, it wouldn't harm creators to learn to hustle for other (potentially wider) markets.
- cam_l 8y ago
  What is the music industry's product though? The musician? Or just the marketing? Certainly not the music, they show no respect for the music. To be clear, I think you are right, people want the product. Just I think the music industry product is actually facilitating groupthink about popularity. Even then they have a 99 in 100 failure rate. It used to be about distribution. Seems pretty clear (from anecdata) that artists these days selling independently or even on platforms like bandcamp (which is awesome) make more on a couple hundred sales than artists with record companies make on a couple thousand. And i think you are right that innovation won't help them. Or at least, this is actually the way they innovate.. Through bullying and legislation. And to that end, I hope they go to hell.
coldtea 8y ago
How about buying what they have the sole rights to sell, instead of downloading without compensating them? Or just getting something else, which is available freely? That the artist might not get most of the money, is not an argument, since the artist already signed agreeing to that.
- shawn 8y ago
  “I’m not saying it’s unfair. I’m saying it won’t work.” Companies exist to serve their customers. The companies that forget this tend to decline.
  - froogie 8y ago
    How about the case where the customers are various shareholders and not end-users?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Companies exist to serve their customers. No problem then, because those who get their songs off of YouTube are not their customers (or, in any case, are not their customers for those particular songs).
    - shawn 8y ago
      That's a bit like saying "No problem, we just won't make money then." Netflix seems to be a good example of forward thinking.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        >Netflix seems to be a good example of forward thinking. We already have content from the music companies to streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music, which is exactly what Netflix does. In fact we had streaming services for music long before Netflix was a thing (e.g. Real's), so theirs is hardly "forward thinking".

Innovation is what you need to do if people don’t want your product. Here, people clearly want the product, so how would innovation help?

mikeash 8y ago
I don’t think this is quite correct. “Want to pay for your product” would be more accurate here.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Well, would these people still not want to pay for that product, if paying was the only way to get it?
Kenji 8y ago
If the product is DRM-ridden garbage music platforms, vendor lock-in and being forced to buy specific devices, then no, I don't want the product. I want clean MP3 or FLAC downloads, such that I own the product I bought and nobody can take it away from me. That is why I've spent hundreds of dollars (or more? I've lost count) on Bandcamp.com and will continue to do so.
bArray 8y ago
Innovation takes many forms, sometimes in selling a product, sometimes in securing a product's exclusivity - such as DRM. Look only as far as YouTube to see what content creators do when the money well dries up - a lot have turned to selling products/advertising themselves with direct deals (dollar shave club, Nord VPN, etc). Another method is through "merch", something Disney for example has been doing for years. Besides, many Countries simply don't respect media copyright full-stop, it wouldn't harm creators to learn to hustle for other (potentially wider) markets.
cam_l 8y ago
What is the music industry's product though? The musician? Or just the marketing? Certainly not the music, they show no respect for the music. To be clear, I think you are right, people want the product. Just I think the music industry product is actually facilitating groupthink about popularity. Even then they have a 99 in 100 failure rate. It used to be about distribution. Seems pretty clear (from anecdata) that artists these days selling independently or even on platforms like bandcamp (which is awesome) make more on a couple hundred sales than artists with record companies make on a couple thousand. And i think you are right that innovation won't help them. Or at least, this is actually the way they innovate.. Through bullying and legislation. And to that end, I hope they go to hell.

coldtea 8y ago

How about buying what they have the sole rights to sell, instead of downloading without compensating them? Or just getting something else, which is available freely? That the artist might not get most of the money, is not an argument, since the artist already signed agreeing to that.

shawn 8y ago
“I’m not saying it’s unfair. I’m saying it won’t work.” Companies exist to serve their customers. The companies that forget this tend to decline.
- froogie 8y ago
  How about the case where the customers are various shareholders and not end-users?
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Companies exist to serve their customers. No problem then, because those who get their songs off of YouTube are not their customers (or, in any case, are not their customers for those particular songs).
  - shawn 8y ago
    That's a bit like saying "No problem, we just won't make money then." Netflix seems to be a good example of forward thinking.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >Netflix seems to be a good example of forward thinking. We already have content from the music companies to streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music, which is exactly what Netflix does. In fact we had streaming services for music long before Netflix was a thing (e.g. Real's), so theirs is hardly "forward thinking".