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Isn't it sort of sad that they are stealing technology rather than making use of their own talents? Individuals don't feel good when they steal, so it must have

Isn't it sort of sad that they are stealing technology rather than making use of their own talents? Individuals don't feel good when they steal, so it must have some sort of effect on a society.

checkyoursudo 8y ago
Is it sad, as a society? I don't know. For me, personally, yeah, it's very dishonorable to my worldview. I would prefer alliances and collaboration and the betterment of all people rather than protectionism and distrust and zero-sum attitudes and behaviors. Hypothetically, what if their talents were indeed to steal stuff and get ahead by appropriating the work of others? Would it then be sad if they didn't put those talents to good use? I have no idea if all people do or don't feel good when they steal, but I would have guessed that some people do in fact feel good when they steal. Perhaps the badness that the people-who-do-the-stealing-for-their-society feel is outweighed by the overall goodness that the rest of society feels because of their advancement in (stolen) technology and the economic and societal benefits that come with that? But, yes, in the end, I personally would rather not have some technology than to acquire it by means contrary to my values. I know an awful lot of people whom I believe, or even know, would either say the opposite or would be indifferent.
robotbikes 8y ago
Or perhaps it isn't seen through the lens of intellectual property. It could seen as gaining knowledge that would allow one to build things they would otherwise not. From what I understand the Chinese culture treats IP very differently than the US. It isn't treated as being owned but people share documentation and the like with people they like. Westerners have a much more legalistic framework for how we treat our ideas. The notion that someone should be able to use the force of the government to prevent others from using their idea isn't necessarily a given but instead the result of certain traditions and institutions. I know the US corporations would like to push these ideas into being part of a binding framework of world trade but this primarily benefits the large corporations that have invested in research, accumulated patents and want to control the world so that they can profit. A lot of the espionage is probably also about gaining knowledge about firms for the purpose of understanding their weaknesses and the lay of the land vs. simply figuring out their secret sauce. I remember reading this was a common practice for Russian intelligence agents who didn't trust the official numbers and so wanted to gain proprietary knowledge from industry insiders.
- marmot777 8y ago
  Yes, I agree it’s cultural norms and so on but stealing IP is stealing the product of a lot of hard work. Imagine if you had an idea stored in a document and someone just stole it. There’s a certain universality about theft being wrong at a gut level. Also, much of this theft involves breaking into other peoples computers. It’s wilfull violation of someone else in multiple ways. Breaking into a computer is as low as robbing a liquor store and I suspect thst everyone, even the perpetrators, feels that at a vicersl level.

Isn't it sort of sad that they are stealing technology rather than making use of their own talents? Individuals don't feel good when they steal, so it must have some sort of effect on a society.

checkyoursudo 8y ago

Is it sad, as a society? I don't know. For me, personally, yeah, it's very dishonorable to my worldview. I would prefer alliances and collaboration and the betterment of all people rather than protectionism and distrust and zero-sum attitudes and behaviors. Hypothetically, what if their talents were indeed to steal stuff and get ahead by appropriating the work of others? Would it then be sad if they didn't put those talents to good use? I have no idea if all people do or don't feel good when they steal, but I would have guessed that some people do in fact feel good when they steal. Perhaps the badness that the people-who-do-the-stealing-for-their-society feel is outweighed by the overall goodness that the rest of society feels because of their advancement in (stolen) technology and the economic and societal benefits that come with that? But, yes, in the end, I personally would rather not have some technology than to acquire it by means contrary to my values. I know an awful lot of people whom I believe, or even know, would either say the opposite or would be indifferent.

robotbikes 8y ago

Or perhaps it isn't seen through the lens of intellectual property. It could seen as gaining knowledge that would allow one to build things they would otherwise not. From what I understand the Chinese culture treats IP very differently than the US. It isn't treated as being owned but people share documentation and the like with people they like. Westerners have a much more legalistic framework for how we treat our ideas. The notion that someone should be able to use the force of the government to prevent others from using their idea isn't necessarily a given but instead the result of certain traditions and institutions. I know the US corporations would like to push these ideas into being part of a binding framework of world trade but this primarily benefits the large corporations that have invested in research, accumulated patents and want to control the world so that they can profit. A lot of the espionage is probably also about gaining knowledge about firms for the purpose of understanding their weaknesses and the lay of the land vs. simply figuring out their secret sauce. I remember reading this was a common practice for Russian intelligence agents who didn't trust the official numbers and so wanted to gain proprietary knowledge from industry insiders.

marmot777 8y ago
Yes, I agree it’s cultural norms and so on but stealing IP is stealing the product of a lot of hard work. Imagine if you had an idea stored in a document and someone just stole it. There’s a certain universality about theft being wrong at a gut level. Also, much of this theft involves breaking into other peoples computers. It’s wilfull violation of someone else in multiple ways. Breaking into a computer is as low as robbing a liquor store and I suspect thst everyone, even the perpetrators, feels that at a vicersl level.