7 ms·

One of the most dangerous forms of lead is Tetraethyllead, because of how fat soluble it is. It's been banned in nearly every country in the world because it mo

by Sileni 8y ago

One of the most dangerous forms of lead is Tetraethyllead, because of how fat soluble it is. It's been banned in nearly every country in the world because it moves through the environment at an alarming rate. One company in the world still manufactures it, and they're based in the UK[0]. They're entirely aware that they're killing people and have openly said in management meetings that they won't stop manufacturing the product until government regulation forces them to. Mind you, lead levels don't only increase in the country the chemical is used; it moves through entire ecosystems and across oceans. Lead levels don't fall to below dangerous levels for decades. This isn't just poisoning the people nearby; it's poisoning the entire world in small, insidious ways. And chemical companies are profiting from that. The margin they're selling TEL for would make government contractors cry. And to top it off, they have virtually no quality program surrounding their products because they don't need one; all of their deals are done with backroom handshakes and agreeing to take the blame if an issue arises. Their company is built around the idea that it actually costs less to just say "Yeah, we're terrible people, fine us" than to actually try and comply with government regulation. They've repeatedly been caught in corruption and environmental probes, and have changed their names in the states and in the UK multiple times. They were literally caught trying to bribe their way into selling TEL in Iran. [1] [0]: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/leaded-petrol-algeria-still-legal-innospec-cheshire-uk-sale-export-tel-tetraethyl-lead-a7907196.html https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/leaded-petrol-alge... [1]: https://www.sfo.gov.uk/2014/08/04/four-sentenced-role-innospec-corruption/ https://www.sfo.gov.uk/2014/08/04/four-sentenced-role-innosp... [1]: https://www.sfo.gov.uk/cases/innospec-ltd/ https://www.sfo.gov.uk/cases/innospec-ltd/

jxub 8y ago
This is something truly horrible, thanks for sharing it here.
jsight 8y ago
I thought aviation gas was the primary reason that this is still around?
- oliveshell 8y ago
  It’s definitely the only reason leaded fuel is still being burned. No one has been able to find a practical replacement anti-knock compound, and apparently it’s been decided that the safety tradeoff is worth it (slightly poisoning the atmosphere vs. risk of in-flight engine failures).
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    There are a couple of companies working on a high-octane unleaded aviation fuel. The FAA PAFI program has largely fallen apart (my interpretation of what’s going on), but there seems to be some hope that GAMI’s G100UL (unleaded) may be workable as a drop-in replacement for today’s 100LL (“low lead” or “avgas”) and a lesser chance (again, IMO) of Swift’s fuel being viable. G100UL is flying in some experimental aircraft today. (These include originally factory-built airplanes/engines converted to experimental use for the purpose of this testing.) It’s probably 5+ years away in the very best case, as there’s a science/engineering problem to clear, but then an even larger regulatory hurdle remaining to clear, as the majority of avgas sold today is sold for airplanes only certified to run on 100LL, so there’s a certification change needed at some level. If that doesn’t apply to the whole fleet, it’s a logistics nightmare for airport fuel vendors. Disclaimer: I casually know one of the principals at GAMI and have visited their test lab. I have no financial connection to them, however. I want them (or anyone else with an all-fleet solution) to succeed so that I can stop burning leaded avgas.
    - AWildC182 8y ago
      Swift also has 94UL which I believe all the Cirrus aircraft are certified for and I imagine most of the other high performance turbos could get an STC for. There's also the mogas STCs if we could drop the stupid ethanol corn subsidy. Personally I'm currently working on an EAB that will run E10 without issue because I'm so sick of the 100LL shit. There's a LOT of lead in 100LL (despite the name) and aircraft operations naturally expose you to a lot of it.
      - sokoloff 8y ago
refurb 8y ago
Leaded gasoline is still used in aviation, so in fact it’s not banned in every country of the world but Algeria? Article is pretty low quality.
- Sileni 8y ago
  I just grabbed an article that had a few sources to dig further if someone so chose. I learned about it through working in the industry.
- justinator 8y ago
  This is something to consider if you're buying a house, and are thinking of having kids. I wouldn't do very near to a airport where they fly planes that use leaded gas. The airport near me definitely does.
  - refurb 8y ago
    Is there any data out there to suggest that people living near airports that use leaded gasoline have high levels of lead in their blood?
    - Tade0 8y ago
      It may be hard to come by, because 100LL(low lead avgas) is used only in piston engine aircraft and airports where these make the majority of traffic are usually in sparsely populated areas.
      - emmelaich 8y ago
        In places where airports are close to residences, the houses will typically be older and poorer. Which may mean they have other sources of lead - e.g. old paint.
        hakfoo 8y ago
        Counterpoint would be some of the hobbyist airports. Some are in fairly wealthy suburban areas; some even have communities where homes will have hangars as well as garages. There's a small airfield near here; 20 years ago it was surrounded with orange groves and an old defense contractor plant, and now they're putting in $800,000 McMansions less than 1km away.
somebodythere 8y ago
Centralize gains, distribute losses.
amiraliakbari 8y ago
I couldn't find any mention of Iran in the references. Did you mean "Indonesia and Iraq"?
- Sileni 8y ago
  Yes; meant to type Iraq, must have been autocorrected by my phone. I can't edit the comment now unfortunately. Otherwise I'd also clarify that I meant "Banned for automobile use". The remaining use of TEL only accounts for a fraction of what was being pumped into the environment when it was being used by cars.

by Sileni 8y ago

jxub 8y ago

This is something truly horrible, thanks for sharing it here.

jsight 8y ago

I thought aviation gas was the primary reason that this is still around?

oliveshell 8y ago
It’s definitely the only reason leaded fuel is still being burned. No one has been able to find a practical replacement anti-knock compound, and apparently it’s been decided that the safety tradeoff is worth it (slightly poisoning the atmosphere vs. risk of in-flight engine failures).
- sokoloff 8y ago
  There are a couple of companies working on a high-octane unleaded aviation fuel. The FAA PAFI program has largely fallen apart (my interpretation of what’s going on), but there seems to be some hope that GAMI’s G100UL (unleaded) may be workable as a drop-in replacement for today’s 100LL (“low lead” or “avgas”) and a lesser chance (again, IMO) of Swift’s fuel being viable. G100UL is flying in some experimental aircraft today. (These include originally factory-built airplanes/engines converted to experimental use for the purpose of this testing.) It’s probably 5+ years away in the very best case, as there’s a science/engineering problem to clear, but then an even larger regulatory hurdle remaining to clear, as the majority of avgas sold today is sold for airplanes only certified to run on 100LL, so there’s a certification change needed at some level. If that doesn’t apply to the whole fleet, it’s a logistics nightmare for airport fuel vendors. Disclaimer: I casually know one of the principals at GAMI and have visited their test lab. I have no financial connection to them, however. I want them (or anyone else with an all-fleet solution) to succeed so that I can stop burning leaded avgas.
  - AWildC182 8y ago
    Swift also has 94UL which I believe all the Cirrus aircraft are certified for and I imagine most of the other high performance turbos could get an STC for. There's also the mogas STCs if we could drop the stupid ethanol corn subsidy. Personally I'm currently working on an EAB that will run E10 without issue because I'm so sick of the 100LL shit. There's a LOT of lead in 100LL (despite the name) and aircraft operations naturally expose you to a lot of it.
    - sokoloff 8y ago

refurb 8y ago

Leaded gasoline is still used in aviation, so in fact it’s not banned in every country of the world but Algeria? Article is pretty low quality.

Sileni 8y ago
I just grabbed an article that had a few sources to dig further if someone so chose. I learned about it through working in the industry.
justinator 8y ago
This is something to consider if you're buying a house, and are thinking of having kids. I wouldn't do very near to a airport where they fly planes that use leaded gas. The airport near me definitely does.
- refurb 8y ago
  Is there any data out there to suggest that people living near airports that use leaded gasoline have high levels of lead in their blood?
  - Tade0 8y ago
    It may be hard to come by, because 100LL(low lead avgas) is used only in piston engine aircraft and airports where these make the majority of traffic are usually in sparsely populated areas.
    - emmelaich 8y ago
      In places where airports are close to residences, the houses will typically be older and poorer. Which may mean they have other sources of lead - e.g. old paint.
      - hakfoo 8y ago
        Counterpoint would be some of the hobbyist airports. Some are in fairly wealthy suburban areas; some even have communities where homes will have hangars as well as garages. There's a small airfield near here; 20 years ago it was surrounded with orange groves and an old defense contractor plant, and now they're putting in $800,000 McMansions less than 1km away.

somebodythere 8y ago

Centralize gains, distribute losses.

amiraliakbari 8y ago

I couldn't find any mention of Iran in the references. Did you mean "Indonesia and Iraq"?

Sileni 8y ago
Yes; meant to type Iraq, must have been autocorrected by my phone. I can't edit the comment now unfortunately. Otherwise I'd also clarify that I meant "Banned for automobile use". The remaining use of TEL only accounts for a fraction of what was being pumped into the environment when it was being used by cars.