6 ms·

haha, the size of the Ethereum blockchain is making it centralized. Less and less nodes can download and keep up with it.

otoburb 8y ago
Fewer full nodes can download and keep up. But light weight ethereum clients[1] shouldn’t have an issue. [1] https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Light-client-protocol https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Light-client-protocol
- thinkmassive 8y ago
  People running light clients should also be running their own full nodes, otherwise the shortage of peers will only get worse https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/issues/15454 https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/issues/15454
  - shazow 8y ago
    Ultimately, all full nodes will also be light clients--that is the nature of the upcoming sharding changes. It does not make sense to have a full node for every light client. A full node is perfectly capable of safely serving hundreds or thousands of light clients. Also there are several initiatives towards incentivizing more light clients. I am working on one: https://vipnode.org/ https://vipnode.org/
    - thinkmassive 8y ago
      I wasn't implying a full node for every light client, of course that doesn't make sense. People using light clients in their products, like a wallet or DApp, are probably adding tens to thousands of light clients. When you add that load to the network, you should also deploy a few full nodes, and probably add them as static peers if you want the application to work well.
    - thinkmassive 8y ago
      > Also there are several initiatives towards incentivizing more light clients. I am working on one: https://vipnode.org/ https://vipnode.org/ This looks cool, I may have to give it a try!
Barrin92 8y ago
>haha, the size of the Ethereum blockchain is making it centralized This is to be expected. Centralization and hierarchies are the fundamental ways to deal with complexity, which is why all non-hierarchical systems are doomed if they grow too large. That's as true for physical or biological systems as it is for markets and currencies, which is why the whole decentralised crypto dream is a fool's errand.
- darawk 8y ago
  That's why planned economies work so well, right?
  - spookthesunset 8y ago
    Obviously there is a happy gray between completely black and completely white.
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    centrally planned economies do not work well, but the focus here lies on the word 'central', not 'planned'. All economies are planned to a significant degree, albeit in corporations (which internally do plan rather than rely on market mechanisms). The equivalent of cryptocurrencies in the economic sphere would be turning every company into an army of independent individual contractors whose only tool is the legal contract. This would lead to unmanageable complexity and overhead that would be unacceptable and very soon end in people naturally organizing in competent hierarchies, producing the dreaded institutions and middlemen that cryptocurrency tries to do away with. Read for this very question Coase's essay, The Nature of the Firm.
    - darawk 8y ago
      I've read Coase. The equivalent of cryptocurrencies in the economic sphere would be exactly what cryptocurrencies are: partially decentralized. Firms form due to the transaction costs of decentralization. Mining pools form due to the transaction costs of decentralization.

otoburb 8y ago

Fewer full nodes can download and keep up. But light weight ethereum clients[1] shouldn’t have an issue. [1] https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Light-client-protocol https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Light-client-protocol

thinkmassive 8y ago
People running light clients should also be running their own full nodes, otherwise the shortage of peers will only get worse https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/issues/15454 https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/issues/15454
- shazow 8y ago
  Ultimately, all full nodes will also be light clients--that is the nature of the upcoming sharding changes. It does not make sense to have a full node for every light client. A full node is perfectly capable of safely serving hundreds or thousands of light clients. Also there are several initiatives towards incentivizing more light clients. I am working on one: https://vipnode.org/ https://vipnode.org/
  - thinkmassive 8y ago
    I wasn't implying a full node for every light client, of course that doesn't make sense. People using light clients in their products, like a wallet or DApp, are probably adding tens to thousands of light clients. When you add that load to the network, you should also deploy a few full nodes, and probably add them as static peers if you want the application to work well.
  - thinkmassive 8y ago
    > Also there are several initiatives towards incentivizing more light clients. I am working on one: https://vipnode.org/ https://vipnode.org/ This looks cool, I may have to give it a try!

Barrin92 8y ago

>haha, the size of the Ethereum blockchain is making it centralized This is to be expected. Centralization and hierarchies are the fundamental ways to deal with complexity, which is why all non-hierarchical systems are doomed if they grow too large. That's as true for physical or biological systems as it is for markets and currencies, which is why the whole decentralised crypto dream is a fool's errand.

darawk 8y ago
That's why planned economies work so well, right?
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  Obviously there is a happy gray between completely black and completely white.
- Barrin92 8y ago
  centrally planned economies do not work well, but the focus here lies on the word 'central', not 'planned'. All economies are planned to a significant degree, albeit in corporations (which internally do plan rather than rely on market mechanisms). The equivalent of cryptocurrencies in the economic sphere would be turning every company into an army of independent individual contractors whose only tool is the legal contract. This would lead to unmanageable complexity and overhead that would be unacceptable and very soon end in people naturally organizing in competent hierarchies, producing the dreaded institutions and middlemen that cryptocurrency tries to do away with. Read for this very question Coase's essay, The Nature of the Firm.
  - darawk 8y ago
    I've read Coase. The equivalent of cryptocurrencies in the economic sphere would be exactly what cryptocurrencies are: partially decentralized. Firms form due to the transaction costs of decentralization. Mining pools form due to the transaction costs of decentralization.