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I think we agree on that. We disagree about the preferred frame of reference.

• lisper 8y ago
  No, I'm pretty sure we agree about that. This is what we disagree about: "in practice it is merely an illusion of choice" I think it's a real choice, not an illusion, and that therefore votes matter. You may not be happy with any of the options, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a real choice, votes matter, and the outcomes of elections really can and do change the course of history, for better or for worse. As an aside, if you are not happy with the choices, you can do something about that too, but effecting that kind of change does require more work than merely voting.
  • philipov 8y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/nyregion/queens-candidates-nominated-without-knowing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/nyregion/queens-candidate... We don't need to agree on the definition of choice, but as long as political machines are allowed to keep playing these games, we're going to keep voting into an effectively captured playing field, and our decline as a society will continue. The difference between slow decline and quick decline is important, but we still lose.