5 ms·

I've long imagined some fun possibilities for this. I picture a small-ish shipping ship, say something moving 20 or 30 containers only, fully autonomous (100%

by mabbo 8y ago

I've long imagined some fun possibilities for this. I picture a small-ish shipping ship, say something moving 20 or 30 containers only, fully autonomous (100% crewless) with sails and solar only powering it. Solar electric motors handling the near-land operations and "not enough wind" conditions, sails otherwise. If you had autonomous loading and unloading, you would have zero variable/operational cost. I am certain there are very good reasons this would never work, but I still love the idea.

alonmower 8y ago
No hostages for pirates to take either (though I guess they could help themselves to all of the goods on the ship)
- Maybestring 8y ago
  And the ships. Drop an anchor and demand ransom to cut it free.
  - lozaning 8y ago
    Even easier, just spoof the GPS signals with your own higher powered broadcast and make the ship think it's sailing around while it's actually stationary. Cant find the link but, some university actually demoed this working in real life with an actual container ship. Im imagining an LED throwie type big magnetic thing with gps RX and TX, and a satellite uplink. Cruise by the autonomous ship on a jetski near a port, thrown the magnet thing on, jetski away, disrupt from afar once the boat is out at sea.
    - dzhiurgis 8y ago
      Ye old compass and lag wont get fooled by such mischievous act.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Electromagnet.
cwmoore 8y ago
Another fun possibility: a train of such ships connected by cables, which wind and unwind generators as the distances between them change, to power propulsion. As for very good reasons why this would never work, sometimes that is beside the point. I am not in the running to redesign trade and power on my own terms, but sometimes I can flush out assumptions that don't need to be held.
fasteddie 8y ago
The reason autonomous/crewless isn't really feasible or worth investing in is that most container ships only have a crew of about a dozen, and they are generally from low-wage countries so that their salary costs are far out-weighted by the fuel.
- travisjungroth 8y ago
  I think this is a good example where automation doesn’t mean getting rid of all jobs, just 99% (which has nearly the same effect). I mean, we still have blacksmiths hand forging swords ffs.
- acrooks 8y ago
  Maybe a little bit picky, but the average size of a crew on a, say, 9000 TEU container ship is actually closer to two dozen. 20-24 most of the time. The number can rise further with more complex cargo.
- tajen 8y ago
  > from low-wage countries I was surprised we still made shipmates (?) in Canada and other western countries. BTW I learnt that from the youtuber JeffHK who makes both relaxing and informative videos about what it’s like to work in the commercial ship industry: https://youtu.be/tdMYEKwxTyo https://youtu.be/tdMYEKwxTyo
sandworm101 8y ago
Unless someone has spent time at sea they cannot appreciate all the maintenance a large ship requires. Crewless ships are pipe dream. But captainless ships, ships operated without officers to navigate them, are a real option. You keep the tiny crew for fixing things but the operation of the ship is handled from afar. Crews are cheap. Ships' masters are not.
- mabbo 8y ago
  Alternatively, the repair crew don't stay on the ship. Have a mobile team on a faster boat going ship to ship rescuing and repairing ones that can't make it to port again.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    Maintenance is not repairs. The work needed to prevent repairs has to happen ever day. A crew at sea doesnt sit around waiting for an alarm. They are tending to equipment, verifying sensors ... even touching up paint is an essential daily task.
    - mabbo 8y ago
      Interesting perspective. I hadn't considered that. Part of me starts to wonder now about building boats that are more resilient, but then I remember that salt water is terrible and surely by now someone would have if it were possible, since we spend so much money on humans doing that maintenance!
      - johnnyletrois 8y ago
        If man can build it, the sea will destroy it.
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Spoken like a true sailor :)
    - 8y ago
flyinglizard 8y ago
Funny, I had this idea around my head for a while tagged under the "world changing startups I'd like to try someday" :) I think it will do to shipping what two engine, midsized passenger jets (A350/787) are doing to air travel: connect directly between small ports anywhere, instead of using very large ports as hubs. FedEx/UPS could have sea terminals anywhere, possibly automated. Global shipping will only grow and I don't see a driver for air freight prices to drop enough so that things are truly international (e.g. buy a fridge from AliExpress). I think it needs to happen, and will happen.

by mabbo 8y ago

alonmower 8y ago

No hostages for pirates to take either (though I guess they could help themselves to all of the goods on the ship)

Maybestring 8y ago
And the ships. Drop an anchor and demand ransom to cut it free.
- lozaning 8y ago
  Even easier, just spoof the GPS signals with your own higher powered broadcast and make the ship think it's sailing around while it's actually stationary. Cant find the link but, some university actually demoed this working in real life with an actual container ship. Im imagining an LED throwie type big magnetic thing with gps RX and TX, and a satellite uplink. Cruise by the autonomous ship on a jetski near a port, thrown the magnet thing on, jetski away, disrupt from afar once the boat is out at sea.
  - dzhiurgis 8y ago
    Ye old compass and lag wont get fooled by such mischievous act.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Electromagnet.

cwmoore 8y ago

Another fun possibility: a train of such ships connected by cables, which wind and unwind generators as the distances between them change, to power propulsion. As for very good reasons why this would never work, sometimes that is beside the point. I am not in the running to redesign trade and power on my own terms, but sometimes I can flush out assumptions that don't need to be held.

fasteddie 8y ago

The reason autonomous/crewless isn't really feasible or worth investing in is that most container ships only have a crew of about a dozen, and they are generally from low-wage countries so that their salary costs are far out-weighted by the fuel.

travisjungroth 8y ago
I think this is a good example where automation doesn’t mean getting rid of all jobs, just 99% (which has nearly the same effect). I mean, we still have blacksmiths hand forging swords ffs.
acrooks 8y ago
Maybe a little bit picky, but the average size of a crew on a, say, 9000 TEU container ship is actually closer to two dozen. 20-24 most of the time. The number can rise further with more complex cargo.
tajen 8y ago
> from low-wage countries I was surprised we still made shipmates (?) in Canada and other western countries. BTW I learnt that from the youtuber JeffHK who makes both relaxing and informative videos about what it’s like to work in the commercial ship industry: https://youtu.be/tdMYEKwxTyo https://youtu.be/tdMYEKwxTyo

sandworm101 8y ago

Unless someone has spent time at sea they cannot appreciate all the maintenance a large ship requires. Crewless ships are pipe dream. But captainless ships, ships operated without officers to navigate them, are a real option. You keep the tiny crew for fixing things but the operation of the ship is handled from afar. Crews are cheap. Ships' masters are not.

mabbo 8y ago
Alternatively, the repair crew don't stay on the ship. Have a mobile team on a faster boat going ship to ship rescuing and repairing ones that can't make it to port again.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Maintenance is not repairs. The work needed to prevent repairs has to happen ever day. A crew at sea doesnt sit around waiting for an alarm. They are tending to equipment, verifying sensors ... even touching up paint is an essential daily task.
  - mabbo 8y ago
    Interesting perspective. I hadn't considered that. Part of me starts to wonder now about building boats that are more resilient, but then I remember that salt water is terrible and surely by now someone would have if it were possible, since we spend so much money on humans doing that maintenance!
    - johnnyletrois 8y ago
      If man can build it, the sea will destroy it.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Spoken like a true sailor :)
  - 8y ago

flyinglizard 8y ago

Funny, I had this idea around my head for a while tagged under the "world changing startups I'd like to try someday" :) I think it will do to shipping what two engine, midsized passenger jets (A350/787) are doing to air travel: connect directly between small ports anywhere, instead of using very large ports as hubs. FedEx/UPS could have sea terminals anywhere, possibly automated. Global shipping will only grow and I don't see a driver for air freight prices to drop enough so that things are truly international (e.g. buy a fridge from AliExpress). I think it needs to happen, and will happen.