18 ms·

Chief U.S. spy catcher says China using LinkedIn to recruit Americans

126 points by AnatMl2 8y ago

Joe8Bit 8y ago
New InMail “Hi I saw your profile and it looked really interesting, have you considered a new oppprtinity in espionage and treason? Can we setup a phone call to discuss?”
- monksy 8y ago
  Keeps resending the message 3 days later because you ignored the first email.
- lainga 8y ago
  "alaing, you have 3 invitations, 8 job changes and 1 new dead drop at the Cuban consulate"
- acheron 8y ago
  Your colleagues have endorsed your skills in "Java", "Spring framework", "proposal writing", and "violent overthrow of the United States government".
- Raphmedia 8y ago
  I always fail the whiteboard interviews for those. I keep answering the "would you destroy your country" question wrong.
madengr 8y ago
I’ve been saying this for years: Linked In is a spies dream. A data gold mine.
- dboreham 8y ago
  A Web Scale Cambridge.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  Pretty much any social network is a dictator's wet dream. Dictatorships in the past hired entire departments to identify who was linked to who. Nowadays is seems that all it takes to access the same info is sending a legal letter to someone managing a database somewhere.
- acct1771 8y ago
  Have you been saying similar things about any other companies for years?
  - madengr 8y ago
    Yes. Google scanning your gmail for targeted advertising. Seems Yahoo has at least fessed up to it.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  And at the end of the day it's just an HR department circle jerk. I am still getting aggressively daily emails from them even though I burned my account a year and a half ago. Report spam is my favorite feature.
faitswulff 8y ago
I found it interesting that the espionage is largely aimed at the private sector and not the government: > About 70 percent of China’s overall espionage is aimed at the U.S. private sector, rather than the government, said Joshua Skule, the head of the FBI’s intelligence division, which is charged with countering foreign espionage in the United States. > “They are conducting economic espionage at a rate that is unparalleled in our history,” he said.
- monksy 8y ago
  They do target the government workers as well. (Well I guess I should say other people do) People target those on linked in who have listed security clearances.
  - ptero 8y ago
    > People target those on linked in who have listed security clearances. Maybe, but I think they have a much better source: I suspect OPM data taken has been sold and lent out so they do not need to trust linked in; they can go directly to the source ( https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-incidents/ https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-incidents/ ). I wonder if it also contains "concerns" that can indicate weak points for recruiting for a true one-stop shopping?
    - 394549 8y ago
      > I wonder if it also contains "concerns" that can indicate weak points for recruiting for a true one-stop shopping? It does. IIRC, it contained security clearance investigation files, so they could probably identify people who had issues but just squeaked by the process. But that's not the only use. The OPM data could be used for counterintelligence, to identify US agents in the field.
- 394549 8y ago
  > I found it interesting that the espionage is largely aimed at the private sector and not the government It's not that surprising though. One of their main focuses seems to be acquiring technology to catch up and eventually surpass Western liberal democracies. See their "Made in China 2025" effort: https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2025 https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2....
mtgx 8y ago
I'm sure the OPM hack through which they got all sorts of private blackmail-worthy info on federal employees helped.
suicideMissiles 8y ago
Honestly, I’d do anything to die in the hellish fury of a nuclear blast, as it destroys an entire city. I was really disappointed in Kim Jong Un caving on his threats. I’ll do anything to ratchet up tensions and provoke a nuclear exchange. Where do I sign up?
- frockington 8y ago
  So much edge I cut myself
  - AWildC182 8y ago
    HN may hate novelty accounts, but I vote we keep this one around for the grins.
imglorp 8y ago
A company I worked for in a $hot_field had some dev servers breached from some IPs in China; they got some of our app's buggy class files and not much more. It's the kind of app you need a bunch of corporate culture to use effectively, so the jars aren't much use. Anyway, a few days later, a bunch of us in our R+D group got LI invites from Chinese recruiters out of the blue. Because of the timing and supposed motivation, we assumed we'd been approached for industrial espionage purposes, but there's not much you can do aside from decline the invite.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  You could troll them.
  - scrumper 8y ago
    Which would put you in the position of being a rank amateur playing against a top pro.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Well you don't get to become a 'top pro' by doing nothing. Seriously though, I doubt the recruiters are 'pro' by any stretch of the imagination.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    Adobe had a Photoshop version that got pirated pretty heavily. They used it as an opportunity to identify forum members requesting support..."there is no photoshop 3.5"
e40 8y ago
There are so many unintended consequences of the internet as we know it today. This, fake news, forums that close because their moderators don't want to cope with the terrible stuff, and on and on. When it was just computer science departments and a few tech companies, it was mostly OK. With a good portion of humanity online... wow.
- pstuart 8y ago
  It definitely feels like a deal with the devil sometimes.
- frockington 8y ago
  I remember the internet in 90s being full of spam, popups that would crash your computer and viruses everywhere. Even before mass adoption it was still a cesspool. I am envious of anyone who got to experience the internet in its infancy
  - pixl97 8y ago
    Eh, until the very late 90s it wasn't that bad. After the dot com bust things got especially bad.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  The more things change, the more they stay the same. It starts to feel 1984-esque when you see these same opinions from 100 years ago or more.
ryanmarsh 8y ago
Anyone contacted by China and considering an offer of money under the table for a small "harmless" disclosure should remember that they killed at least 12 CIA sources between 2010 and 2012 [0] State craft is not for amateurs and sources on both sides routinely get hung out to dry. Think of your family. Do not play this game. 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...
- rhizome 8y ago
  they killed at least 12 CIA sources between 2010 and 2012 Here and elsewhere in the comments, it's interesting that those stats are always presented one-sided.
  - GW150914 8y ago
    That’s an odd thing to say in reply to someone who said, State craft is not for amateurs and sources on both sides routinely get hung out to dry.
dqpb 8y ago
> "I recently saw that Twitter is cancelling, I don’t know, millions of fake accounts, and our request would be maybe LinkedIn could go ahead and be part of that" Wow. Strong language from the head of the U.S. National Counter-Intelligence and Security Center
- throwawaymanbot 8y ago
  There is absolutely no reason why anyone from areas like China need to see the linked in profile of people working in special jobs for the us. They should be taken out of the social graph. Its so silly.
- gurumeditations 8y ago
  Wow, the US security apparatus is truly pathetic and outdated. No wonder China has pilfered trillions of dollars of IP from us and Russia is successfully destabilizing our society. It reminds me of how big complacent corporations from another era get overtaken by hungry young startups who are fluent in the tools of today.
rajathagasthya 8y ago
This reminds of a story I read a while back about India's spy agency (RAW) allegedly kidnapping a retired Lt. Colonel from Pakistan's spy agency (ISI) in Nepal using his LinkedIn information as a 'job bait'. From [1]: > The complainant alleges that some months ago a person called Mark Thomas called his father on his phone number 033434443 from a number in the UK 0044-7451722 and offered him a job at the Strategic Solutions Consultancy firm. > It now transpires that Lt Col Zahir had put up his bio-data on LinkedIn and some other websites seeking a job opportunity three years after he retired from the Pakistan army. In short, LinkedIn's data is very, very valuable. [1] - https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/pakistan-media-raw-abudtucked-isi-man-avenge-kulbhushan-jadhav-970887-2017-04-12 https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/pakistan-media-ra...
projectramo 8y ago
New jobs program: you pretend to have all kinds of heavy duty intel, let the Chinese government hire you and then milk the new position for all it is worth. Could be a thriller, but I would pitch this one as a comedy.
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  All you need to make it happen is Seth Rogen and Roger Stone to collaborate.
  - projectramo 8y ago
    "WE got a good news bad news situation. The good news is, I convinced them that we are working on a nano-AI-solar-blockchain-social-drone" "And the bad news?" "They gave me some funding. I have to hire people. What's your cousin doing these days?"
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    Or Ben Affleck, Bryan Cranston, & John Goodman.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Sounds like a great way to get on the bad side of both the Chinese and American governments. Plus you're in a foreign country with fewer people to watch out for you.
  - projectramo 8y ago
    I have one word for you: telecommuting!
- taobility 8y ago
  Interesting. From most Chinese prospect, American are stereotyped as naive, simple, and most time they are easy to be cheated.
  - deleted 8y ago
jorblumesea 8y ago
The issue is that China has blurred lines between government and industry, and industry often uses government resources to accomplish "private" goals. Private defense companies use Chinese intelligence assets to gain access to IP as part of a strategic technological transfer. The US has no such system. Private companies are left to their own devices and in some ways hostile to government help. On the government side, they are not well equipped to understand or handle the needs of individual businesses. If we want to combat this, we need to seriously change the way we approach the problem. The reality is that private companies have immense long term strategic value for the US and we need to protect that.
cpluspluss 8y ago
this might sound really awkward but a few weeks ago two chinese linkedin accounts approached me and asked me to attend a career fair based in nyc and boston but i declined and said I don't understand/ can read Chinese. sorry. And now this news comes out.
scottlegrand2 8y ago
I think the bigger thing going on is Chinese companies setting up "AI labs" in Silicon Valley to juice their valuation. I'm looking right at you JD.com...
subcosmos 8y ago
If you really want to lose sleep at night .... consider the fact that foreign intelligence agencies likely have EMPLOYEES at top tech companies....
- vkou 8y ago
  American intelligence agencies likely have EMPLOYEES at top Chinese tech companies. Spies are going to spy. I'm far more concerned about my government spying on me, then China spying on me.
  - Scoping_dindus 8y ago
    That's because you have no patriotism. You'd derive pleasure from seeing Americans get hurt or killed so long as they were ones that you disagree with. Foreign spies on American companies is an extremely serious issue. What happens when a Chinese spy takes over a power plant? What happens when integrity tests at water treatment facilities are fraudulent? What happens when the wrong reaction happens in a big pharmaceutical processing plant? Millions could die. You're more worried about the government finding out what type of porn you prefer.
- Timmah 8y ago
  I lose way more sleep thinking about the dirty deeds committed against us by our domestic intelligence agencies. I don't give 2 fucks if China gets blueprints for a defective, overpriced fighter jet that kills it's own pilots.
  - ProAm 8y ago
    Im kind of concerned they have iPhone X's with headphone jacks though.
- jdc 8y ago
  Definitely adds motivation to the user-friendly end-to-end encryption imperative.
- sneak 8y ago
desireco42 8y ago
I wonder what is US using? I know CIA places ads for recruitment online.
- rhizome 8y ago
  Probably LinkedIn, too.
anderson7899 8y ago
hello everyone. am Anderson i was frustrated and disturbed when i suspect my partner was cheating on me.i couldn't confront him because he'll always lie about it.i went for counseling and a came in contact with a private investigator/hacker,i never buy the idea after a few process,he did a data dive into my partner mobile and he did it,he provide me with all the evidence i need,starting from the emails,calls,what apps chat and lot more. it was a shocking moment,i was not happy about what i saw. it wasn't easy to move on,but am now free from all his lies.you can contact this great hacker via whats app (+16282037169) text him on (13175616706 )or via murphy.c8990@gmail.com is services is cheap and affordable. i never believed this until i saw the evidence..we all need to be free and live happily.
RandomInteger4 8y ago
Are they also requiring 5 years of experience for an entry level corporate espionage gig?

126 points by AnatMl2 8y ago

New InMail “Hi I saw your profile and it looked really interesting, have you considered a new oppprtinity in espionage and treason? Can we setup a phone call to discuss?”

monksy 8y ago
Keeps resending the message 3 days later because you ignored the first email.
lainga 8y ago
"alaing, you have 3 invitations, 8 job changes and 1 new dead drop at the Cuban consulate"
acheron 8y ago
Your colleagues have endorsed your skills in "Java", "Spring framework", "proposal writing", and "violent overthrow of the United States government".
Raphmedia 8y ago
I always fail the whiteboard interviews for those. I keep answering the "would you destroy your country" question wrong.

madengr 8y ago

I’ve been saying this for years: Linked In is a spies dream. A data gold mine.

dboreham 8y ago
A Web Scale Cambridge.
geezerjay 8y ago
Pretty much any social network is a dictator's wet dream. Dictatorships in the past hired entire departments to identify who was linked to who. Nowadays is seems that all it takes to access the same info is sending a legal letter to someone managing a database somewhere.
acct1771 8y ago
Have you been saying similar things about any other companies for years?
- madengr 8y ago
  Yes. Google scanning your gmail for targeted advertising. Seems Yahoo has at least fessed up to it.
paulie_a 8y ago
And at the end of the day it's just an HR department circle jerk. I am still getting aggressively daily emails from them even though I burned my account a year and a half ago. Report spam is my favorite feature.

faitswulff 8y ago

I found it interesting that the espionage is largely aimed at the private sector and not the government: > About 70 percent of China’s overall espionage is aimed at the U.S. private sector, rather than the government, said Joshua Skule, the head of the FBI’s intelligence division, which is charged with countering foreign espionage in the United States. > “They are conducting economic espionage at a rate that is unparalleled in our history,” he said.

monksy 8y ago
They do target the government workers as well. (Well I guess I should say other people do) People target those on linked in who have listed security clearances.
- ptero 8y ago
  > People target those on linked in who have listed security clearances. Maybe, but I think they have a much better source: I suspect OPM data taken has been sold and lent out so they do not need to trust linked in; they can go directly to the source ( https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-incidents/ https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-incidents/ ). I wonder if it also contains "concerns" that can indicate weak points for recruiting for a true one-stop shopping?
  - 394549 8y ago
    > I wonder if it also contains "concerns" that can indicate weak points for recruiting for a true one-stop shopping? It does. IIRC, it contained security clearance investigation files, so they could probably identify people who had issues but just squeaked by the process. But that's not the only use. The OPM data could be used for counterintelligence, to identify US agents in the field.
394549 8y ago
> I found it interesting that the espionage is largely aimed at the private sector and not the government It's not that surprising though. One of their main focuses seems to be acquiring technology to catch up and eventually surpass Western liberal democracies. See their "Made in China 2025" effort: https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2025 https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2....

mtgx 8y ago

I'm sure the OPM hack through which they got all sorts of private blackmail-worthy info on federal employees helped.

suicideMissiles 8y ago

Honestly, I’d do anything to die in the hellish fury of a nuclear blast, as it destroys an entire city. I was really disappointed in Kim Jong Un caving on his threats. I’ll do anything to ratchet up tensions and provoke a nuclear exchange. Where do I sign up?

frockington 8y ago
So much edge I cut myself
- AWildC182 8y ago
  HN may hate novelty accounts, but I vote we keep this one around for the grins.

imglorp 8y ago

A company I worked for in a $hot_field had some dev servers breached from some IPs in China; they got some of our app's buggy class files and not much more. It's the kind of app you need a bunch of corporate culture to use effectively, so the jars aren't much use. Anyway, a few days later, a bunch of us in our R+D group got LI invites from Chinese recruiters out of the blue. Because of the timing and supposed motivation, we assumed we'd been approached for industrial espionage purposes, but there's not much you can do aside from decline the invite.

craftyguy 8y ago
You could troll them.
- scrumper 8y ago
  Which would put you in the position of being a rank amateur playing against a top pro.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Well you don't get to become a 'top pro' by doing nothing. Seriously though, I doubt the recruiters are 'pro' by any stretch of the imagination.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  Adobe had a Photoshop version that got pirated pretty heavily. They used it as an opportunity to identify forum members requesting support..."there is no photoshop 3.5"

e40 8y ago

There are so many unintended consequences of the internet as we know it today. This, fake news, forums that close because their moderators don't want to cope with the terrible stuff, and on and on. When it was just computer science departments and a few tech companies, it was mostly OK. With a good portion of humanity online... wow.

pstuart 8y ago
It definitely feels like a deal with the devil sometimes.
frockington 8y ago
I remember the internet in 90s being full of spam, popups that would crash your computer and viruses everywhere. Even before mass adoption it was still a cesspool. I am envious of anyone who got to experience the internet in its infancy
- pixl97 8y ago
  Eh, until the very late 90s it wasn't that bad. After the dot com bust things got especially bad.
stephengillie 8y ago
The more things change, the more they stay the same. It starts to feel 1984-esque when you see these same opinions from 100 years ago or more.

ryanmarsh 8y ago

Anyone contacted by China and considering an offer of money under the table for a small "harmless" disclosure should remember that they killed at least 12 CIA sources between 2010 and 2012 [0] State craft is not for amateurs and sources on both sides routinely get hung out to dry. Think of your family. Do not play this game. 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

rhizome 8y ago
they killed at least 12 CIA sources between 2010 and 2012 Here and elsewhere in the comments, it's interesting that those stats are always presented one-sided.
- GW150914 8y ago
  That’s an odd thing to say in reply to someone who said, State craft is not for amateurs and sources on both sides routinely get hung out to dry.

dqpb 8y ago

> "I recently saw that Twitter is cancelling, I don’t know, millions of fake accounts, and our request would be maybe LinkedIn could go ahead and be part of that" Wow. Strong language from the head of the U.S. National Counter-Intelligence and Security Center

throwawaymanbot 8y ago
There is absolutely no reason why anyone from areas like China need to see the linked in profile of people working in special jobs for the us. They should be taken out of the social graph. Its so silly.
gurumeditations 8y ago
Wow, the US security apparatus is truly pathetic and outdated. No wonder China has pilfered trillions of dollars of IP from us and Russia is successfully destabilizing our society. It reminds me of how big complacent corporations from another era get overtaken by hungry young startups who are fluent in the tools of today.

rajathagasthya 8y ago

This reminds of a story I read a while back about India's spy agency (RAW) allegedly kidnapping a retired Lt. Colonel from Pakistan's spy agency (ISI) in Nepal using his LinkedIn information as a 'job bait'. From [1]: > The complainant alleges that some months ago a person called Mark Thomas called his father on his phone number 033434443 from a number in the UK 0044-7451722 and offered him a job at the Strategic Solutions Consultancy firm. > It now transpires that Lt Col Zahir had put up his bio-data on LinkedIn and some other websites seeking a job opportunity three years after he retired from the Pakistan army. In short, LinkedIn's data is very, very valuable. [1] - https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/pakistan-media-raw-abudtucked-isi-man-avenge-kulbhushan-jadhav-970887-2017-04-12 https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/pakistan-media-ra...

projectramo 8y ago

New jobs program: you pretend to have all kinds of heavy duty intel, let the Chinese government hire you and then milk the new position for all it is worth. Could be a thriller, but I would pitch this one as a comedy.

godzillabrennus 8y ago
All you need to make it happen is Seth Rogen and Roger Stone to collaborate.
- projectramo 8y ago
  "WE got a good news bad news situation. The good news is, I convinced them that we are working on a nano-AI-solar-blockchain-social-drone" "And the bad news?" "They gave me some funding. I have to hire people. What's your cousin doing these days?"
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Or Ben Affleck, Bryan Cranston, & John Goodman.
saagarjha 8y ago
Sounds like a great way to get on the bad side of both the Chinese and American governments. Plus you're in a foreign country with fewer people to watch out for you.
- projectramo 8y ago
  I have one word for you: telecommuting!
taobility 8y ago
Interesting. From most Chinese prospect, American are stereotyped as naive, simple, and most time they are easy to be cheated.
- deleted 8y ago

jorblumesea 8y ago

The issue is that China has blurred lines between government and industry, and industry often uses government resources to accomplish "private" goals. Private defense companies use Chinese intelligence assets to gain access to IP as part of a strategic technological transfer. The US has no such system. Private companies are left to their own devices and in some ways hostile to government help. On the government side, they are not well equipped to understand or handle the needs of individual businesses. If we want to combat this, we need to seriously change the way we approach the problem. The reality is that private companies have immense long term strategic value for the US and we need to protect that.

cpluspluss 8y ago

this might sound really awkward but a few weeks ago two chinese linkedin accounts approached me and asked me to attend a career fair based in nyc and boston but i declined and said I don't understand/ can read Chinese. sorry. And now this news comes out.

scottlegrand2 8y ago

I think the bigger thing going on is Chinese companies setting up "AI labs" in Silicon Valley to juice their valuation. I'm looking right at you JD.com...

subcosmos 8y ago

If you really want to lose sleep at night .... consider the fact that foreign intelligence agencies likely have EMPLOYEES at top tech companies....

vkou 8y ago
American intelligence agencies likely have EMPLOYEES at top Chinese tech companies. Spies are going to spy. I'm far more concerned about my government spying on me, then China spying on me.
- Scoping_dindus 8y ago
  That's because you have no patriotism. You'd derive pleasure from seeing Americans get hurt or killed so long as they were ones that you disagree with. Foreign spies on American companies is an extremely serious issue. What happens when a Chinese spy takes over a power plant? What happens when integrity tests at water treatment facilities are fraudulent? What happens when the wrong reaction happens in a big pharmaceutical processing plant? Millions could die. You're more worried about the government finding out what type of porn you prefer.
Timmah 8y ago
I lose way more sleep thinking about the dirty deeds committed against us by our domestic intelligence agencies. I don't give 2 fucks if China gets blueprints for a defective, overpriced fighter jet that kills it's own pilots.
- ProAm 8y ago
  Im kind of concerned they have iPhone X's with headphone jacks though.
jdc 8y ago
Definitely adds motivation to the user-friendly end-to-end encryption imperative.
sneak 8y ago

desireco42 8y ago

I wonder what is US using? I know CIA places ads for recruitment online.

rhizome 8y ago
Probably LinkedIn, too.

anderson7899 8y ago

hello everyone. am Anderson i was frustrated and disturbed when i suspect my partner was cheating on me.i couldn't confront him because he'll always lie about it.i went for counseling and a came in contact with a private investigator/hacker,i never buy the idea after a few process,he did a data dive into my partner mobile and he did it,he provide me with all the evidence i need,starting from the emails,calls,what apps chat and lot more. it was a shocking moment,i was not happy about what i saw. it wasn't easy to move on,but am now free from all his lies.you can contact this great hacker via whats app (+16282037169) text him on (13175616706 )or via murphy.c8990@gmail.com is services is cheap and affordable. i never believed this until i saw the evidence..we all need to be free and live happily.

RandomInteger4 8y ago

Are they also requiring 5 years of experience for an entry level corporate espionage gig?