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I've been wondering why shipping companies haven't been doing this for years now. Whenever I brought it up with friends they would say it's probably not worth t

I've been wondering why shipping companies haven't been doing this for years now. Whenever I brought it up with friends they would say it's probably not worth the effort, but I can't see how it wouldn't be worth it. It's essentially free energy to help move the ship around. Got to say, I feel vindicated by this story.

gardaani 8y ago
The interest is rising. Here's the story about Viking Grace, a passenger vessel with the Flettner rotor: https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/viking-line-installs-rotor-sail-on-cruise-ferry#gs.wWbA3Ho https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/viking-line-insta... Here's a passenger's video about it. It spins quite fast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8YSRhMsXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8YSRhMsXA
IB885588 8y ago
Inertia is hard to fight. Sometimes all it takes is one player in a market doing it and then everybody else follows/feels they have to also to compete. That's one reason why Tesla was such a catalyst for the whole industry and EVs. As long as nobody else was really making too much of an effort, everybody could just drag their feet.
Someguywhatever 8y ago
Upfront cost of installation, and ongoing maintenance, and the fragility of sails at the time may have prevented them being used before now.
tomtimtall 8y ago
Essentially free energy... except the cost to install, the cost to operate, maintainable and of cause the cost when one of them breaks and causes damage. For a lot of these “why don’t they just” the answer is simply that they did the math and saw too small an upside for too big a risk. They are trying this out to see if the overall concept works in practice or if it falls short.
- ant6n 8y ago
  Or they never did the math, assuming it wouldn't work out because of cost to operate, maintain and insure.
siruncledrew 8y ago
I think part of it is needing the technology/implementation piece. Wind power was viable for centuries, but as ships got bigger and bigger, steam/petrol engines became the standard in the shipping industry as traditional sails were no longer viable. Now that we are developing higher efficiency renewable energy technology, we have the opportunity to move full-circle back towards wind power again. However, since these current sails are only supplementing the ship's fuel costs by ~10%, there's still a long ways to go.
- jabl 8y ago
  > Wind power was viable for centuries, but as ships got bigger and bigger, steam/petrol engines became the standard in the shipping industry as traditional sails were no longer viable. My understanding is that the main driver in the sail->steam transition was that steam ships were usually faster (and had much less variability in their schedule), and required smaller crews. The glory of the "last windjammers" was largely enabled by very cheap labor from then-developing countries, allowing them to be competitive on a few select long distance routes.
bovine3dom 8y ago
> It's essentially free energy The rotors have to be powered. I believe the losses to friction and added mechanical complexity made it unfeasible in the past. I'd love to see this succeed. The magnus effect is pretty counter-intuitive; it's always nice to see weird physics get used for real.
reaperducer 8y ago
Notice the height of the rotors. Cargo ships already have problems clearing bridges in some ports. I imagine that must also be a factor.
- evan_ 8y ago
  I wonder if they could be made to be telescoping or otherwise collapsible.

gardaani 8y ago

The interest is rising. Here's the story about Viking Grace, a passenger vessel with the Flettner rotor: https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/viking-line-installs-rotor-sail-on-cruise-ferry#gs.wWbA3Ho https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/viking-line-insta... Here's a passenger's video about it. It spins quite fast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8YSRhMsXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8YSRhMsXA

IB885588 8y ago

Inertia is hard to fight. Sometimes all it takes is one player in a market doing it and then everybody else follows/feels they have to also to compete. That's one reason why Tesla was such a catalyst for the whole industry and EVs. As long as nobody else was really making too much of an effort, everybody could just drag their feet.

Someguywhatever 8y ago

Upfront cost of installation, and ongoing maintenance, and the fragility of sails at the time may have prevented them being used before now.

tomtimtall 8y ago

Essentially free energy... except the cost to install, the cost to operate, maintainable and of cause the cost when one of them breaks and causes damage. For a lot of these “why don’t they just” the answer is simply that they did the math and saw too small an upside for too big a risk. They are trying this out to see if the overall concept works in practice or if it falls short.

ant6n 8y ago
Or they never did the math, assuming it wouldn't work out because of cost to operate, maintain and insure.

siruncledrew 8y ago

I think part of it is needing the technology/implementation piece. Wind power was viable for centuries, but as ships got bigger and bigger, steam/petrol engines became the standard in the shipping industry as traditional sails were no longer viable. Now that we are developing higher efficiency renewable energy technology, we have the opportunity to move full-circle back towards wind power again. However, since these current sails are only supplementing the ship's fuel costs by ~10%, there's still a long ways to go.

jabl 8y ago
> Wind power was viable for centuries, but as ships got bigger and bigger, steam/petrol engines became the standard in the shipping industry as traditional sails were no longer viable. My understanding is that the main driver in the sail->steam transition was that steam ships were usually faster (and had much less variability in their schedule), and required smaller crews. The glory of the "last windjammers" was largely enabled by very cheap labor from then-developing countries, allowing them to be competitive on a few select long distance routes.

bovine3dom 8y ago

> It's essentially free energy The rotors have to be powered. I believe the losses to friction and added mechanical complexity made it unfeasible in the past. I'd love to see this succeed. The magnus effect is pretty counter-intuitive; it's always nice to see weird physics get used for real.

reaperducer 8y ago

Notice the height of the rotors. Cargo ships already have problems clearing bridges in some ports. I imagine that must also be a factor.

evan_ 8y ago
I wonder if they could be made to be telescoping or otherwise collapsible.