5 ms·

This is unfortunate - that seems like a lot of work for a relatively simple, albeit well-done app. I might have to think twice about whether I want to do an ap

by lukev 16y ago

This is unfortunate - that seems like a lot of work for a relatively simple, albeit well-done app. I might have to think twice about whether I want to do an app to complement a webapp I'm doing in my spare time (no prior experience on iDevice development).

einarvollset 16y ago
I think you'll find that's actually pretty damn efficient for such an app. If you add interaction with a client changing their mind, etc (v. common..) then it could easily be higher. Much higher.
tptacek 16y ago
I don't think it's Cocoa that's slowing them down, so much as that it's a really, really, really good phone app.
- weaksauce 16y ago
  It takes more time than anyone really thinks to do anything really well.
  - Zev 16y ago
    That has nothing to do with Cocoa. It would take me as much time to do a Rails app well as it would for someone who has as much experience in Objective C as I do in Rails (that is, not nearly as much as I do with Cocoa).
    - weaksauce 16y ago
      Exactly. That was my point as well. It takes a lot of time to do anything very well.
TotlolRon 16y ago
> This is unfortunate - that seems like a lot of work for a relatively simple, albeit well-done app. It takes a lot of work to make things look simple. And even more to make them well-done.
- tptacek 16y ago
  The simpler you make something, the more perfect the execution of each of the remaining elements have to be, because your attention is now laser-focused on them.
- roc 16y ago
  Not unlike the old saw: "I'm sorry this letter is so long, I didn't have time to writer a shorter one."
- joeld42 16y ago
  Hear hear. The user interface for my first app took me 3x as long as I expected, despite finding (unexpectedly) that Cocoa Touch to be one of the nicest API's I've encountered. It was because I re-built it several times to make it feel "right", and after watching users try it. Each time it got simpler. It probably only took a few days worth of coding for what went into the final app (the editing interface, not the whole thing) but the road to get there was long. I guess that's the value of an experienced UX designer -- they can do that work beforehand with paper and intuition.
gavingmiller 16y ago
Don't let a professional app like Twitterrific discourage you from taking a dive into iDevice dev. Prior to writing my iPhone app, I had 0 experience doing iPhone or Objective-C dev (I do have a comp sci degree which did help a ton.) All told it took me and my partner around 70 hours of dev/design work (some of that was me reading HCI guidelines for the iPhone.) We spent around $200 on an icon package, $75ish on an anti-hack kit, and had some server costs that got absorbed elsewhere. It was a fun project and something we'll continue to play with in our spare time.
- astrange 16y ago
  What is an anti-hack kit?
  - gavingmiller 16y ago
    I hope I didn't confuse... that should be anti-crack kit. Specifically the kit uses various means to detect if the application had been cracked. When applications are cracked there are various tell-tale signatures that are left behind such as modified plist files. These signatures are detectable by the kit, which I can check on via a call to the kit's "isCracked()" method. I collect this statistic, and if I wanted to could cripple the app.
    - msbarnett 16y ago
      Out of curiosity, what kit are you using? I'd be interested in giving something like that a try.
      - gavingmiller 16y ago
        I'm using the one developed by Oliver Drobnik called AntiCrack: http://www.drobnik.com/touch/anticrack/ http://www.drobnik.com/touch/anticrack/
    - astrange 16y ago
      Is there no way to validate code-signing on your app bundle? I would think that would still work even if the signing requirement was patched out of the OS.

by lukev 16y ago

einarvollset 16y ago

I think you'll find that's actually pretty damn efficient for such an app. If you add interaction with a client changing their mind, etc (v. common..) then it could easily be higher. Much higher.

tptacek 16y ago

I don't think it's Cocoa that's slowing them down, so much as that it's a really, really, really good phone app.

weaksauce 16y ago
It takes more time than anyone really thinks to do anything really well.
- Zev 16y ago
  That has nothing to do with Cocoa. It would take me as much time to do a Rails app well as it would for someone who has as much experience in Objective C as I do in Rails (that is, not nearly as much as I do with Cocoa).
  - weaksauce 16y ago
    Exactly. That was my point as well. It takes a lot of time to do anything very well.

TotlolRon 16y ago

> This is unfortunate - that seems like a lot of work for a relatively simple, albeit well-done app. It takes a lot of work to make things look simple. And even more to make them well-done.

tptacek 16y ago
The simpler you make something, the more perfect the execution of each of the remaining elements have to be, because your attention is now laser-focused on them.
roc 16y ago
Not unlike the old saw: "I'm sorry this letter is so long, I didn't have time to writer a shorter one."
joeld42 16y ago
Hear hear. The user interface for my first app took me 3x as long as I expected, despite finding (unexpectedly) that Cocoa Touch to be one of the nicest API's I've encountered. It was because I re-built it several times to make it feel "right", and after watching users try it. Each time it got simpler. It probably only took a few days worth of coding for what went into the final app (the editing interface, not the whole thing) but the road to get there was long. I guess that's the value of an experienced UX designer -- they can do that work beforehand with paper and intuition.

gavingmiller 16y ago

Don't let a professional app like Twitterrific discourage you from taking a dive into iDevice dev. Prior to writing my iPhone app, I had 0 experience doing iPhone or Objective-C dev (I do have a comp sci degree which did help a ton.) All told it took me and my partner around 70 hours of dev/design work (some of that was me reading HCI guidelines for the iPhone.) We spent around $200 on an icon package, $75ish on an anti-hack kit, and had some server costs that got absorbed elsewhere. It was a fun project and something we'll continue to play with in our spare time.

astrange 16y ago
What is an anti-hack kit?
- gavingmiller 16y ago
  I hope I didn't confuse... that should be anti-crack kit. Specifically the kit uses various means to detect if the application had been cracked. When applications are cracked there are various tell-tale signatures that are left behind such as modified plist files. These signatures are detectable by the kit, which I can check on via a call to the kit's "isCracked()" method. I collect this statistic, and if I wanted to could cripple the app.
  - msbarnett 16y ago
    Out of curiosity, what kit are you using? I'd be interested in giving something like that a try.
    - gavingmiller 16y ago
      I'm using the one developed by Oliver Drobnik called AntiCrack: http://www.drobnik.com/touch/anticrack/ http://www.drobnik.com/touch/anticrack/
  - astrange 16y ago
    Is there no way to validate code-signing on your app bundle? I would think that would still work even if the signing requirement was patched out of the OS.