4 ms·

Or what it looks like when you get rid of the cars themselves from inner cities. I got rid of my car over a decade ago and after a few years really started noti

by Joeri 8y ago

Or what it looks like when you get rid of the cars themselves from inner cities. I got rid of my car over a decade ago and after a few years really started noticing just how much of a burden cars are on city life and how much of an eye sore. Amusingly you get a bit of an impression of what it could be by looking at the present day pictures from the article, because they’re google street view pictures and google tries to remove most of the cars. Realistic present day pictures would have the cars bumper to bumper on most of the roads. (Getting rid of all cars is probably not possible, but 90+% of them aren’t necessary, could be parked at the city’s edge and I’m pretty sure most city residents would agree after a year or two it is better that way.)

KozmoNau7 8y ago
I sold my car earlier this year, and started bicycle commuting again about a month ago. I honestly hadn't realized just how wasteful of space car traffic is. When I commuted by public transit, It was mostly not directly visible to me, especially when I took the train and just bypassed all the traffic. But riding my bike, I see just how clogged up the roads get, and just how much the flow gets disturbed by people blocking intersections and creating gridlock. The vast majority of these cars are only transporting a single occupant, even the huge 7-seat SUVs. The amount of wasted space is simply astounding. If we could keep even just the city centers free of cars, there would be so much more space available for pedestrians and cyclists and city life. Sure, allow some commercial traffic, such as deliveries, tradesmen with jobs to do in the city, buses and taxi services. Ban all private car traffic, and only hand out temporary permits for transporting home bulky objects or similar short-term undertakings. Price it so that people won't just buy one every single day. Maybe set a limit on how many permits are allowed per month, to prevent the wealthy from gaming the system. Quality of life would increase massively.
- mattlondon 8y ago
  They kinda tried that in London with congestion charging - i.e. you have to pay £11.50 or £21.50 (depending on vehicle) a day to drive into central London. Latest data I could easily find (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge) was that after 10 years of operation it reduced traffic by 10% (ten). A report from 2014 said that traffic levels are now close to pre-congestion-charge levels (https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/cc-changes-march-2014/user_uploads/cc-impact-assessment.pdf https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/cc-changes-march-2014...). The public buses and privately-run taxis are everywhere and are significant causes of traffic in my anecdotal experience (e.g. bus blocking the road waiting for someone to finish talking to the driver, bus blocking junction, buses blocking road waiting to get into bus stop where 5 other buses already are waiting to pick-up or put-down, taxi-drivers stopping in illegal places to drop people off or doing illegal u-turns etc etc. Whats worse is the buses are diesel and pump out loads of fumes from their heavy diesel engines. Bus ridership is falling (http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/londons-bus-ridership-is-falling-three-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-englands/ http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/londons-bus-ridership-is-falling...) yet we still have to put up with them and their diesel. tl;dr - charging doesn't work at the £10-20/day prices (equivalent to 3.6 to 6.7 Big Macs on the BigMacIndex a day to drive into london) I guess it might work if the fees go up an order of magnitude.
detritus 8y ago
The aspect of ICE cars disappearing from cities that I'm most looking to is the reduction in noise. I have a sneaking suspicion that ICE cars have a less than wonderful impact on insects too, but that's just a feeling.
- tnorthcutt 8y ago
  That will help with roadway noise, but won't make as significant an impact as many people (not saying you specifically) might assume. The majority of noise comes from the tire/road interface: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/05/will-electric-cars-make-traffic-quieter-yes-no/ https://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/05/will-electric-cars-make...
  - detritus 8y ago
    Aye, I know - but I have noticed a massive difference in drive by noise whenever a Tesla S drives past, versus much smaller cars like Renaults and such. It's enough to make a difference individually, I'm curious to hear what it's like cumulatively. I suppose the big one I'm waiting for is electric motorbikes - I've whinged them on HN beforehand, but those buggers can be heard from blocks away, waking or annoying thousands - tens of thousands! - of people in built-up urban areas. (ed. spelling)
    - srb- 8y ago
      Me too, I'm really hoping that electrics get rid of a lot of annoying and completely unnecessary vehicle noise. I know they won't kill the tire/wind sounds, but if they break the mental association of loud == fast == cool for men, it could be a game changer. No more ridiculously loud acceleration from 'modded' cars and bikes... Also heavy trucks / buses under acceleration can be loud too, hopefully those'll go away as well.
  - himlion 8y ago
    On the other hand, the noise peaks from (older) accelerating engines is one of the most annoying sounds. I can live with the background hum of tire/road friction.

by Joeri 8y ago

KozmoNau7 8y ago

I sold my car earlier this year, and started bicycle commuting again about a month ago. I honestly hadn't realized just how wasteful of space car traffic is. When I commuted by public transit, It was mostly not directly visible to me, especially when I took the train and just bypassed all the traffic. But riding my bike, I see just how clogged up the roads get, and just how much the flow gets disturbed by people blocking intersections and creating gridlock. The vast majority of these cars are only transporting a single occupant, even the huge 7-seat SUVs. The amount of wasted space is simply astounding. If we could keep even just the city centers free of cars, there would be so much more space available for pedestrians and cyclists and city life. Sure, allow some commercial traffic, such as deliveries, tradesmen with jobs to do in the city, buses and taxi services. Ban all private car traffic, and only hand out temporary permits for transporting home bulky objects or similar short-term undertakings. Price it so that people won't just buy one every single day. Maybe set a limit on how many permits are allowed per month, to prevent the wealthy from gaming the system. Quality of life would increase massively.

mattlondon 8y ago
They kinda tried that in London with congestion charging - i.e. you have to pay £11.50 or £21.50 (depending on vehicle) a day to drive into central London. Latest data I could easily find (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge) was that after 10 years of operation it reduced traffic by 10% (ten). A report from 2014 said that traffic levels are now close to pre-congestion-charge levels (https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/cc-changes-march-2014/user_uploads/cc-impact-assessment.pdf https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/cc-changes-march-2014...). The public buses and privately-run taxis are everywhere and are significant causes of traffic in my anecdotal experience (e.g. bus blocking the road waiting for someone to finish talking to the driver, bus blocking junction, buses blocking road waiting to get into bus stop where 5 other buses already are waiting to pick-up or put-down, taxi-drivers stopping in illegal places to drop people off or doing illegal u-turns etc etc. Whats worse is the buses are diesel and pump out loads of fumes from their heavy diesel engines. Bus ridership is falling (http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/londons-bus-ridership-is-falling-three-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-englands/ http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/londons-bus-ridership-is-falling...) yet we still have to put up with them and their diesel. tl;dr - charging doesn't work at the £10-20/day prices (equivalent to 3.6 to 6.7 Big Macs on the BigMacIndex a day to drive into london) I guess it might work if the fees go up an order of magnitude.

detritus 8y ago

The aspect of ICE cars disappearing from cities that I'm most looking to is the reduction in noise. I have a sneaking suspicion that ICE cars have a less than wonderful impact on insects too, but that's just a feeling.

tnorthcutt 8y ago
That will help with roadway noise, but won't make as significant an impact as many people (not saying you specifically) might assume. The majority of noise comes from the tire/road interface: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/05/will-electric-cars-make-traffic-quieter-yes-no/ https://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/05/will-electric-cars-make...
- detritus 8y ago
  Aye, I know - but I have noticed a massive difference in drive by noise whenever a Tesla S drives past, versus much smaller cars like Renaults and such. It's enough to make a difference individually, I'm curious to hear what it's like cumulatively. I suppose the big one I'm waiting for is electric motorbikes - I've whinged them on HN beforehand, but those buggers can be heard from blocks away, waking or annoying thousands - tens of thousands! - of people in built-up urban areas. (ed. spelling)
  - srb- 8y ago
    Me too, I'm really hoping that electrics get rid of a lot of annoying and completely unnecessary vehicle noise. I know they won't kill the tire/wind sounds, but if they break the mental association of loud == fast == cool for men, it could be a game changer. No more ridiculously loud acceleration from 'modded' cars and bikes... Also heavy trucks / buses under acceleration can be loud too, hopefully those'll go away as well.
- himlion 8y ago
  On the other hand, the noise peaks from (older) accelerating engines is one of the most annoying sounds. I can live with the background hum of tire/road friction.