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I'm a little confused about what the best-case/ideal scenario is for this. As an example, I am currently working on a project that has a basic profile page. So

I'm a little confused about what the best-case/ideal scenario is for this. As an example, I am currently working on a project that has a basic profile page. So on the server side, I have my nice OO representation of a Profile object, complete with properly defined public and private variables, a slew of functions, and a save() function that validates saves the data to the database. When I display that page to the client, I have a PHP view which takes the data from the model and then renders it. In the view, I do currently use jQote2 to do some basic client-side templating where appropriate (for example, displaying all of the friends of the profile's user). Now, the Profile page features the ability to edit profile fields. There is jQuery involved here. Currently, I just have a function that is called when the "Save" button is clicked that gathers up all the various data from my input fields and whatnot, and sends that off as JSON to be saved on the PHP side of things. Is this someplace where Backbone.js would make sense? Would I then have to have a representation of my model both in PHP and in Javascript? And my PHP view would contain several Javascript sub-views? And when I do save the model on the Javascript side of things, am I then just executing database queries on the PHP side, or am I re-loading the model, changing the attributes, and then using the PHP model's save() function? I guess I'm just confused as to where this fits into the grand scheme of things. There's a part of me that certainly likes the idea of data binding and having smart re-rendering of parts of my pages based on when models change, but I'm just unclear on how this fits into my existing PHP MVC stuff.

jashkenas 16y ago
Backbone is intended for JavaScript-driven web applications. If you're doing most of your logic and HTML rendering on the server-side, then it's not appropriate for you. However, if you have an application with a lot of JavaScript interactivity, or a single-page application where the entire interface is driven from JavaScript (this is the case for us), then it helps to structure your client-side code with a little more oomph than just jQuery provides. Taken to the extreme, in our case, the DocumentCloud workspace is effectively an empty body tag, and all of the HTML rendering and interesting logic happens in JavaScript models and views -- you never have to refresh the page. The server-side Rails code becomes smaller and less complicated, essentially delegated to performing validations and authentication and serving JSON to the client. Think GMail, or New Twitter, or 280 Slides...
- silverlight 16y ago
  Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply. So basically this is for those folks who are making real "web applications" -- meaning applications where a lot is happening on the client side, typically more of a "single URL/page", with dialog boxes and whatnot as opposed to a bunch of pages in the more traditional "web site" sense. I have often considered trying out Cappuccino, but for some reason none of the websites I build end up being "web applications" in this sense. But I can't help but wonder if that's because they aren't, or if it's because I'm not thinking about them the right way. It's outside the scope of this topic, but I can't help but ask: "How do you know when a website becomes a web application"? Is it the scope of the problem (trying to do "one thing", e.g. edit a photo, vs. presenting an entire web site full of information?) Or is it truly just a preference thing? I can only think that as projects like Node.js gain prominence, the lines will continue to be blurred...
  - jashkenas 16y ago
    The line is as blurry as you'd like to make it. A great example of this is Google Instant. Old Google.com was a web page -- and Google Instant is now a web application, the page doesn't refresh, and sends down JSON data which is rendered into your search results by JavaScript...

jashkenas 16y ago

Backbone is intended for JavaScript-driven web applications. If you're doing most of your logic and HTML rendering on the server-side, then it's not appropriate for you. However, if you have an application with a lot of JavaScript interactivity, or a single-page application where the entire interface is driven from JavaScript (this is the case for us), then it helps to structure your client-side code with a little more oomph than just jQuery provides. Taken to the extreme, in our case, the DocumentCloud workspace is effectively an empty body tag, and all of the HTML rendering and interesting logic happens in JavaScript models and views -- you never have to refresh the page. The server-side Rails code becomes smaller and less complicated, essentially delegated to performing validations and authentication and serving JSON to the client. Think GMail, or New Twitter, or 280 Slides...

silverlight 16y ago
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply. So basically this is for those folks who are making real "web applications" -- meaning applications where a lot is happening on the client side, typically more of a "single URL/page", with dialog boxes and whatnot as opposed to a bunch of pages in the more traditional "web site" sense. I have often considered trying out Cappuccino, but for some reason none of the websites I build end up being "web applications" in this sense. But I can't help but wonder if that's because they aren't, or if it's because I'm not thinking about them the right way. It's outside the scope of this topic, but I can't help but ask: "How do you know when a website becomes a web application"? Is it the scope of the problem (trying to do "one thing", e.g. edit a photo, vs. presenting an entire web site full of information?) Or is it truly just a preference thing? I can only think that as projects like Node.js gain prominence, the lines will continue to be blurred...
- jashkenas 16y ago
  The line is as blurry as you'd like to make it. A great example of this is Google Instant. Old Google.com was a web page -- and Google Instant is now a web application, the page doesn't refresh, and sends down JSON data which is rendered into your search results by JavaScript...