3 ms·

To be fair, I would consider spending time with people you wouldn't spend time with unless you're paid to so, as work. Sure, you can claim it's not really work

by bhaak 8y ago

To be fair, I would consider spending time with people you wouldn't spend time with unless you're paid to so, as work. Sure, you can claim it's not really work in the narrow definition of work, but if you go down that path, you will end up at "it's only really work if it's physical work".

geezerjay 8y ago
I also don't have a problem with claims that having fancy dinners with partners constitutes work. However, it's disingenuous to compare them with plowing a field, laying bricks, welding steel bars, driving a bus, serving meals or even fixing software bugs.
- jstandard 8y ago
  Disinegenuous in what regard? What may seem like "eating and drinking" for sales and biz dev folks is a game requiring thinking on your feet, subtle negotiation, reading social cues, and constant strategy changes.
  - oblio 8y ago
    I think his point is that you train all your life for all of that and it's closer to normal activities. Plowing and other physical exertions or programming and other very demanding intellectual activities are waaay off from what the human body is meant to do 80 hours per week, long term.
    - jstandard 8y ago
      I deeply disagree and I'd wager anyone who has done any sort of sales or biz dev does too. Trying to influence a potential client to close a multi-million dollar software contract is anything but close to 'normal' activities. It's very demanding intellectually and emotionally. I really encourage you to learn more about what sales folks actually do when having dinner with a big prospective client. They aren't just eating.
  - xtracto 8y ago
    You are completely right. I am a Software Engineer that had to play Head of Engineering at a 100 person start-up. I had the chance to go to Money2020 in Las Vegas along with my CEO, assisting to several lunch meetings and "receptions" . As well as travelling around the USA to raise VC money. That shit is difficult, tyring and definitely requires certain skills to do it right. I definitely would put it up there with developing complex Software architectures.

by bhaak 8y ago

geezerjay 8y ago

I also don't have a problem with claims that having fancy dinners with partners constitutes work. However, it's disingenuous to compare them with plowing a field, laying bricks, welding steel bars, driving a bus, serving meals or even fixing software bugs.

jstandard 8y ago
Disinegenuous in what regard? What may seem like "eating and drinking" for sales and biz dev folks is a game requiring thinking on your feet, subtle negotiation, reading social cues, and constant strategy changes.
- oblio 8y ago
  I think his point is that you train all your life for all of that and it's closer to normal activities. Plowing and other physical exertions or programming and other very demanding intellectual activities are waaay off from what the human body is meant to do 80 hours per week, long term.
  - jstandard 8y ago
    I deeply disagree and I'd wager anyone who has done any sort of sales or biz dev does too. Trying to influence a potential client to close a multi-million dollar software contract is anything but close to 'normal' activities. It's very demanding intellectually and emotionally. I really encourage you to learn more about what sales folks actually do when having dinner with a big prospective client. They aren't just eating.
- xtracto 8y ago
  You are completely right. I am a Software Engineer that had to play Head of Engineering at a 100 person start-up. I had the chance to go to Money2020 in Las Vegas along with my CEO, assisting to several lunch meetings and "receptions" . As well as travelling around the USA to raise VC money. That shit is difficult, tyring and definitely requires certain skills to do it right. I definitely would put it up there with developing complex Software architectures.