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> If that actually denoted how common a distribution was in any way, we'd see a lot more Slackware in the world. According to the graph, Slackware is a way les

• kbenson 8y ago
  > According to the graph, Slackware is a way less widespread than Red Hat, and Red Hat is a way less widespread than Debian. It seems to be a correct representation of reality, given the popularity of the .deb package format, and the size of apt package repositories, in comparison to .rpm and yum, respectively. As I noted before, this graph is just showing a family tree of distributions, not use. If I made a hundred different different distributions they would show as a hundred different branches here. That wouldn't mean anyone actually ran or runs them. "Widespread" only really makes sense with respect to install or end users, neither of which are represented here at all. > Debian might be the second most popular Linux server distribution in the world That's not what your link says. It says it's the second most common distribution for powering websites (so it doesn't count dedicated mail servers, cache servers, database servers, file servers, etc). It also says that "Unix" is almost twice as popular as Linux under the same methodology. That likely means BSD variants, but whatever methodology is showing that ~70% of all websites are running on Unix seems somewhat questionable to me.
  • krn 8y ago
    Are you claiming that there is not enough evidence of Debian being a major Linux distribution, whose developers should be informed of major security bugs before they become public? > It says it's the second most common distribution for powering websites There is no other way to measure and compare the popularity of open-source operating systems. Any search for "operating systems market share" shows Debian only seriously behind Ubuntu, and close to CentOS[1][2]. Do you also question the popularity of Ubuntu and CentOS? [1] https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/operating-systems/debian-market-share https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/operating-systems/debi... [2] https://www.similartech.com/categories/operating-system https://www.similartech.com/categories/operating-system
    • kbenson 8y ago
      > Are you claiming that there is not enough evidence of Debian being a major Linux distribution, whose developers should be informed of major security bugs before they become public? I'm claiming that Debian's wording was somewhat weird, and that they aren't necessarily as large as it makes them sound. Additionally I'l claiming that the nature of Debian itself may make it harder to get them vetted for access (I suspect the kernel developers that got access are employed to work on the kernel by large companies, a fairly common scenario for Google and Redhat for example, which is another point for including them). Also, I'm stating that public numbers got operating system by website is a very poor metric, which I'll cover below. > There is no other way to measure and compare the popularity of open-source operating systems. Any search for "operating systems market share" shows Debian only seriously behind Ubuntu, and close to CentOS[1][2]. Just because only some numbers are available does not mean they are worth using. For example, in the SimilarTech link you provided[1], you might notice that the operating systems usage percentages shown for the top 1k sites add up to less than 5%. For the "entire internet" statistics it's just over 1.5%. I interpret this as the vast majority of sites having no discernible data as to what operating system they run (for their testing criteria, at least). I suspect it's really a measure of servers started that have the default HTTP server running with a landing page saying "Thanks for installing CentOS" or has some poorly configured protocol with an OS identifier in it (which has been deemed poor security for quite a while, which might explain ancient Unix systems having a large showing...). For the Datanyze stats[2], the total websites shown add up to just over 2.1 million. What we don't know, since I can't find any info on their methodology, is whether they suffer from the same problem I suspect SimilarTech does, in that they are reporting vastly biased data because they can only determine the OS of a small subset of the total sample. Additionally, this doesn't count desktop installs. Google alone likely has over 20k developers[3], and the default desktop for them is Goobuntu (a Google variant of Ubuntu). While I expect Windows and OS X to have a large share of that market overall, the relative number of desktops compared to servers means that it may affect the numbers greatly. There is actually a way to semi-accurately measure operating system usage, at least for operating systems that use default update mirror-lists and auto-update (most linux distros, to my knowledge) randomly (or using some specific leveling algorithm) spread requests along the mirrors, if you could get stats on actual downloads of a core package that had a security update within the last 6 months to a year (preferably daily or months stats) for a few mirrors, you could statistically derive a lot of information are active installs. You'll miss people that auto-install with special configurations that point to internal mirrors (common in some business settings), but you might get within 10% of a real number for a distribution. > Do you also question the popularity of Ubuntu and CentOS? I question any number presented by these sites. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to suspect they are popular. If I did not have even that anecdotal evidence, I wouldn't assume to know much from the data we have seen so far. 1: https://www.similartech.com/categories/operating-system https://www.similartech.com/categories/operating-system 2: https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/operating-systems https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/operating-systems 3: https://www.quora.com/How-many-software-engineers-does-Google-have https://www.quora.com/How-many-software-engineers-does-Googl...