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I could see this being used in the same way that auto-tune type effects are added to singers voices. The editing of music videos could include a tool like this

I could see this being used in the same way that auto-tune type effects are added to singers voices. The editing of music videos could include a tool like this to make sure all of the dancers behind the main one are moving just right. And just like auto-tuned voices, it will come off as janky and fake.

hrktb 8y ago
Good parralel. And the same way some song makers have used autotune to adjust synthetic voices like Hatsune Miku’s, would this have any use as an external filter to smooth out synthethized videos ?
chillee 8y ago
Practically all singers use "pitch correction", which is essentially "autotune that's not done for artistic effect". If done properly, it's not really janky or fake sounding at all.
- justonepost 8y ago
  Yeah, I suspect the closer you are to the optimal voice/movement the better the effect is.
- nineteen999 8y ago
  Maybe for recorded mainstream pop music that is true, but we can tell because the performance then sounds bowdlerised and dull. It can't really help with a live performance and a for a good singer, recording multiple takes is going to be faster/more economical, punching in/out is so easy and with modern digital DAW's like ProTools (which does this by default) it keeps all your takes for you anyway - no need to waste another track on your 24 track tape or tape over the previous one. Here's another viewpoint: https://www.quora.com/Do-all-most-singers-use-pitch-correction-software https://www.quora.com/Do-all-most-singers-use-pitch-correcti... Fantastic vocal performances were captured all throughout the last century without the parachute of pitch correction/autotune. I'd rather listen to an imperfect take with flaws than to a machine assisted correction any day. Each to their own I guess.
  - puranjay 8y ago
    As someone who likes to write and produce songs but can't sing, I'd say that auto-tune and pitch correction are a Godsend. It means I can try out new ideas without having to rely on a vocalist. Modern production tools have mostly eliminated the need to work with a band. I can create music that I want to create with complete artistic freedom. Auto-tune is just another step in that direction.
    - nineteen999 8y ago
      I think you make a good point. I can't sing well either and I love to track multiple instruments in my home studio, and I couldn't do that nearly as well without modern technology. I guess I'd rather listen back to my crappy vocals and think hard about what I didn't like about them though, and work on improving that rather than try to make it something it's not with pitch correction. But everyone has a different way of working that works for them I suppose, which is why I ended my original comment with "each to their own".
  - Siemer 8y ago
    Recording is not the problem. Cutting and splicing the best bits of all those recordings is very labor intensive.
    - djaychela 8y ago
      .. and depending on the singer, can be nigh on impossible. Some are incredibly consistent in terms of timing and phrasing (making editing easy), while with others each one is unique, and only large sections can be used with each other.
  - djaychela 8y ago
    I don't think it's always the case that you -can- tell. I think it falls nearly into 'Rumsfeld classification': Known Knowns - done for the clear effect, which is audible by everyone (as popularised, but not invented by Cher, T-Pain, etc). Known Unknowns - ones where most people wouldn't notice, but if you've listened to autotune a lot you'd swear it's been done (sustained notes with vibrato added seem to be clear contenders here to me, such as one in 'Angels' by Robbie Williams Unknown Unknowns - There are lots of recordings I've worked on for people (mixing, mostly) where the vocal sounds perfect, and it's actually been autotuned/processed. Subtly, but still processed. I only know this because the person who's done it has confirmed it. In the context of a mix there's little evidence, if any at all. And if you listen to backing vocals of the last decade versus BVs from say 30 years ago, you really hear the difference - not because modern ones necessarily sound like they've been worked on, but because the old ones sound just a little bit out of tune in comparison. I've done work on singers' recordings where I've fixed the pitch and they haven't even noticed it on their own voice, in isolation (which really is the sound everyone knows best). If done well (and appropriately), it doesn't turn it into awful processed rubbish, it can tweak an otherwise brilliant performance and make it near-perfect. I say this as a recording engineer who loves the sound of a band playing together, and would always sacrifice separation / absolute recording quality for the communication and feel that you get with a live band playing together how they normally do - I wouldn't sacrifice personality for pitch, but I think you can improve on nearly everyone's performance in some places. Having said that, the flip side of this is that people think 'they can fix that in the mix' when they've not given a great performance... and that's never the case!
- aczerepinski 8y ago
  I want to plug Jacob Collier though, who doesn't use pitch correction because it's less in tune than where he wants to place the notes naturally, up or down a few cents depending on the note's relationship to the prevailing chord.
  - noddy1w 8y ago
    He's a maestro, love his iharmu vids especially
valtism 8y ago
The autotune you refer to as "janky and fake" is when autotune is used with intention to create that sound as an artistic syle. Autotune is used across most pop (and other) music, but in such a way that that you never realise it is there. It is similar to special effects. People complain about how bad and fake they look, but this is only for the effects that are bad enough that they are noticible. People don't realise the sheer amount of special effects being used in scenes they never realise they are being used for.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  It is still noticeable in normal performances. You can hear unnatural overtones from autotune used as intended. Even more so when supposed singers use it live and have to stay glued to their mic to isolate any outside noise.
  - gpvos 8y ago
    Interesting! Do you have examples where it is possible to hear these unnatural overtones?
    - mattmanser 8y ago
      Pick up any modern pop record. Some are worse than others, but all are auto tuned. Just Google worst auto-tune for examples, because it's so common now, most people don't notice it. Here's a list of some examples: http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop-music-10-examples/ http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop... Also, if you're not really musical you might have a hard time picking it out. I found that as soon as I learnt an instrument, songs suddenly became layered and I could pick out and distinguish different instruments, and notice mistakes.
      - darkerside 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure many of those examples are purposeful uses of autotune for effect
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

hrktb 8y ago

Good parralel. And the same way some song makers have used autotune to adjust synthetic voices like Hatsune Miku’s, would this have any use as an external filter to smooth out synthethized videos ?

chillee 8y ago

Practically all singers use "pitch correction", which is essentially "autotune that's not done for artistic effect". If done properly, it's not really janky or fake sounding at all.

justonepost 8y ago
Yeah, I suspect the closer you are to the optimal voice/movement the better the effect is.
nineteen999 8y ago
Maybe for recorded mainstream pop music that is true, but we can tell because the performance then sounds bowdlerised and dull. It can't really help with a live performance and a for a good singer, recording multiple takes is going to be faster/more economical, punching in/out is so easy and with modern digital DAW's like ProTools (which does this by default) it keeps all your takes for you anyway - no need to waste another track on your 24 track tape or tape over the previous one. Here's another viewpoint: https://www.quora.com/Do-all-most-singers-use-pitch-correction-software https://www.quora.com/Do-all-most-singers-use-pitch-correcti... Fantastic vocal performances were captured all throughout the last century without the parachute of pitch correction/autotune. I'd rather listen to an imperfect take with flaws than to a machine assisted correction any day. Each to their own I guess.
- puranjay 8y ago
  As someone who likes to write and produce songs but can't sing, I'd say that auto-tune and pitch correction are a Godsend. It means I can try out new ideas without having to rely on a vocalist. Modern production tools have mostly eliminated the need to work with a band. I can create music that I want to create with complete artistic freedom. Auto-tune is just another step in that direction.
  - nineteen999 8y ago
    I think you make a good point. I can't sing well either and I love to track multiple instruments in my home studio, and I couldn't do that nearly as well without modern technology. I guess I'd rather listen back to my crappy vocals and think hard about what I didn't like about them though, and work on improving that rather than try to make it something it's not with pitch correction. But everyone has a different way of working that works for them I suppose, which is why I ended my original comment with "each to their own".
- Siemer 8y ago
  Recording is not the problem. Cutting and splicing the best bits of all those recordings is very labor intensive.
  - djaychela 8y ago
    .. and depending on the singer, can be nigh on impossible. Some are incredibly consistent in terms of timing and phrasing (making editing easy), while with others each one is unique, and only large sections can be used with each other.
- djaychela 8y ago
  I don't think it's always the case that you -can- tell. I think it falls nearly into 'Rumsfeld classification': Known Knowns - done for the clear effect, which is audible by everyone (as popularised, but not invented by Cher, T-Pain, etc). Known Unknowns - ones where most people wouldn't notice, but if you've listened to autotune a lot you'd swear it's been done (sustained notes with vibrato added seem to be clear contenders here to me, such as one in 'Angels' by Robbie Williams Unknown Unknowns - There are lots of recordings I've worked on for people (mixing, mostly) where the vocal sounds perfect, and it's actually been autotuned/processed. Subtly, but still processed. I only know this because the person who's done it has confirmed it. In the context of a mix there's little evidence, if any at all. And if you listen to backing vocals of the last decade versus BVs from say 30 years ago, you really hear the difference - not because modern ones necessarily sound like they've been worked on, but because the old ones sound just a little bit out of tune in comparison. I've done work on singers' recordings where I've fixed the pitch and they haven't even noticed it on their own voice, in isolation (which really is the sound everyone knows best). If done well (and appropriately), it doesn't turn it into awful processed rubbish, it can tweak an otherwise brilliant performance and make it near-perfect. I say this as a recording engineer who loves the sound of a band playing together, and would always sacrifice separation / absolute recording quality for the communication and feel that you get with a live band playing together how they normally do - I wouldn't sacrifice personality for pitch, but I think you can improve on nearly everyone's performance in some places. Having said that, the flip side of this is that people think 'they can fix that in the mix' when they've not given a great performance... and that's never the case!
aczerepinski 8y ago
I want to plug Jacob Collier though, who doesn't use pitch correction because it's less in tune than where he wants to place the notes naturally, up or down a few cents depending on the note's relationship to the prevailing chord.
- noddy1w 8y ago
  He's a maestro, love his iharmu vids especially

valtism 8y ago

The autotune you refer to as "janky and fake" is when autotune is used with intention to create that sound as an artistic syle. Autotune is used across most pop (and other) music, but in such a way that that you never realise it is there. It is similar to special effects. People complain about how bad and fake they look, but this is only for the effects that are bad enough that they are noticible. People don't realise the sheer amount of special effects being used in scenes they never realise they are being used for.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
It is still noticeable in normal performances. You can hear unnatural overtones from autotune used as intended. Even more so when supposed singers use it live and have to stay glued to their mic to isolate any outside noise.
- gpvos 8y ago
  Interesting! Do you have examples where it is possible to hear these unnatural overtones?
  - mattmanser 8y ago
    Pick up any modern pop record. Some are worse than others, but all are auto tuned. Just Google worst auto-tune for examples, because it's so common now, most people don't notice it. Here's a list of some examples: http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop-music-10-examples/ http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop... Also, if you're not really musical you might have a hard time picking it out. I found that as soon as I learnt an instrument, songs suddenly became layered and I could pick out and distinguish different instruments, and notice mistakes.
    - darkerside 8y ago
      I'm pretty sure many of those examples are purposeful uses of autotune for effect

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]