5 ms·

I don't see anything wrong with this - we're still so new in social media (it's only a couple decades old), so its constantly evolving no different than the "wi

I don't see anything wrong with this - we're still so new in social media (it's only a couple decades old), so its constantly evolving no different than the "wild west" Internet days. The only concern I have is the experience they are earning. In a "traditional" summer job (car wash, manual labor, cashier, etc.), you gained experience in something I'd call "grit" - harsh work conditions, people yelling at you, etc. Being an Instagram model or YouTuber still deals with its share of internet trolls, but are people learning to handle when things "won't go their way"? I don't think that's the term I'm looking for, but just the overall "not enjoying the work" part of, well... work! My concerns are because people are failure-averse, we hate negativity. A YouTuber/Instragammer can simply not read the comments, or selectively filter the comments. Are they getting the same "grit" experience as the more traditional work environments I mentioned above? EDIT: As you'll see in my responses to comments - what about non-person "grit"? Does being an Instragram model or YouTuber develop the grit to push through the annoying/boring/tedious/stressful parts of making money? When you a digging ditches, you don't exactly get to "ignore" the negative parts of the job. When learning, you don't get to "ignore" the struggle of not understanding something. Grit or perseverance (pick which one you like better), is a necessary skill that more physical jobs teach. Being the center of some social network clique, does not.

louisswiss 8y ago
> My concerns are because people are failure-averse, we hate negativity. A YouTuber/Instragammer can simply not read the comments, or selectively filter the comments. Are they getting the same "grit" experience as the more traditional work environments I mentioned above? 1) Should we aspire to that grit/negativity continuing as part of everyone's working lives? I'm not so sure... 2) Sure - and as a SaaS owner I can ignore customer complaints/support requests. But I'll end up out of business pretty quickly. Same goes for influencers and their audience. The difference is (perhaps) that a bit of negative press isn't necessarily bad for business in the influencer world...
- tsumnia 8y ago
  > Should we aspire to that grit/negativity continuing as part of everyone's working lives? I'm not so sure... I'll say yes, mostly due to the fact we cannot control life. If a family member is injured or killed, you cannot ignore it. Let's change the "grit"-building away from interacting with people to other "sucky" grit-building attributes; for example, physical fitness. Starting off sucks and hurts, but you have to "push through" to develop the ritual and motivation to improve. To do Couch to 5K, you have to deal with the upfront costs of huffing, wheezing, AND allocating time in your schedule to huff and wheeze. With a job like car washing or landscaping, you can quit, but you're out of work. The only thing you can do is lay a wet bandanna on your head and get back to work. Another analogy is Computer Science, and more generally STEM. I think one of the primary reasons from the high attrition rates isn't because people "weren't born that way". The constant failure is commonplace; at least when compiling your first programs in intro to CS. I think people choose to pursue other careers because you have to "deal with" compiler errors. My concern is that you don't learn this by being a billboard. Maybe Youtubing, since there's video editing, but again why I'm not sure. This gets back to my "failure-aversion" - if people are not building enough "grit", or perseverance if you don't like the term grit, then they will not be able to do anything BEYOND be a walking advertisement.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
closetohome 8y ago
If you think it's necessary to be yelled at in a menial physical job to learn "grit," then you're probably short a few desirable professional characteristics yourself.
- tsumnia 8y ago
  Instead of interactions, what about my example of car wash or manual labor? I don't think yelling is necessary. I do think standing outside in the summer because you are working does teach grit.
CJefferson 8y ago
They are getting a much grittier experience. No-one ever came to me at my summer job and told me to kill myself, or that I was too ugly to rape.
- jaredandrews 8y ago
  I take it you never worked in a customer facing position?
- tsumnia 8y ago
  As I've said elsewhere, what about non-customer interaction activities? I grew up digging ditches for my family's business. I WILL say shoveling clay in the summer in North Carolina humidity is a much grittier experience than reading someone's comment on the internet I don't know verbally attacking me.
  - 1996 8y ago
    If it provides so much value for the kid, why stop here? I think we should start torture camps for spoiled children - shoveling clay in North Carolina summer, shoveling snow in Alaska winter, and so on! That will teach them!! If it is so good, parents will certainly pay good money to put their kids in the best torture camp!
    - tsumnia 8y ago
      Slippery slope fallacy aside since that is advocating we go back to a time before child labor laws, yes. The hard work involved is my point. This doesn't have to be physical labor, see my error handling example in learning computer science. K-12 also refers to what I'm advocating as "productive struggle", and I'm not sure being an advertisement teaches this skill.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
Sorry, I disagree. I honestly find this whole business of not just marketing to relatively young children but paying them to be your marketing drones pretty disgusting. I mean, some of the kids in this story are 12 and 13. I find this commoditization of "friendship" distressing enough when adults do it, but with developing children I find it to be a gross abuse of power. As another poster said, perhaps the one good to come from this is that (hopefully) kids will get so turned off from the constant stream of bullshit that they will disconnect entirely.
- tsumnia 8y ago
  I apologize, I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Also, I agree, commoditization of friendship is not good and I do not support that. I was more referring to this as the modern-day hussle and that if people are going to choose Instagram'ing as their occupation, they aren't gaining necessary "grit" from other types of work
askafriend 8y ago
They're getting a crash course in branding, advertising, and media. It's a low level marketing role.
projektir 8y ago
> The only concern I have is the experience they are earning. In a "traditional" summer job (car wash, manual labor, cashier, etc.), you gained experience in something I'd call "grit" - harsh work conditions, people yelling at you, etc. This is a positive? O.o
- tsumnia 8y ago
  Check through my other responses; I don't view it as positive or negative, just necessary.

louisswiss 8y ago

> My concerns are because people are failure-averse, we hate negativity. A YouTuber/Instragammer can simply not read the comments, or selectively filter the comments. Are they getting the same "grit" experience as the more traditional work environments I mentioned above? 1) Should we aspire to that grit/negativity continuing as part of everyone's working lives? I'm not so sure... 2) Sure - and as a SaaS owner I can ignore customer complaints/support requests. But I'll end up out of business pretty quickly. Same goes for influencers and their audience. The difference is (perhaps) that a bit of negative press isn't necessarily bad for business in the influencer world...

tsumnia 8y ago
> Should we aspire to that grit/negativity continuing as part of everyone's working lives? I'm not so sure... I'll say yes, mostly due to the fact we cannot control life. If a family member is injured or killed, you cannot ignore it. Let's change the "grit"-building away from interacting with people to other "sucky" grit-building attributes; for example, physical fitness. Starting off sucks and hurts, but you have to "push through" to develop the ritual and motivation to improve. To do Couch to 5K, you have to deal with the upfront costs of huffing, wheezing, AND allocating time in your schedule to huff and wheeze. With a job like car washing or landscaping, you can quit, but you're out of work. The only thing you can do is lay a wet bandanna on your head and get back to work. Another analogy is Computer Science, and more generally STEM. I think one of the primary reasons from the high attrition rates isn't because people "weren't born that way". The constant failure is commonplace; at least when compiling your first programs in intro to CS. I think people choose to pursue other careers because you have to "deal with" compiler errors. My concern is that you don't learn this by being a billboard. Maybe Youtubing, since there's video editing, but again why I'm not sure. This gets back to my "failure-aversion" - if people are not building enough "grit", or perseverance if you don't like the term grit, then they will not be able to do anything BEYOND be a walking advertisement.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

closetohome 8y ago

If you think it's necessary to be yelled at in a menial physical job to learn "grit," then you're probably short a few desirable professional characteristics yourself.

tsumnia 8y ago
Instead of interactions, what about my example of car wash or manual labor? I don't think yelling is necessary. I do think standing outside in the summer because you are working does teach grit.

CJefferson 8y ago

They are getting a much grittier experience. No-one ever came to me at my summer job and told me to kill myself, or that I was too ugly to rape.

jaredandrews 8y ago
I take it you never worked in a customer facing position?
tsumnia 8y ago
As I've said elsewhere, what about non-customer interaction activities? I grew up digging ditches for my family's business. I WILL say shoveling clay in the summer in North Carolina humidity is a much grittier experience than reading someone's comment on the internet I don't know verbally attacking me.
- 1996 8y ago
  If it provides so much value for the kid, why stop here? I think we should start torture camps for spoiled children - shoveling clay in North Carolina summer, shoveling snow in Alaska winter, and so on! That will teach them!! If it is so good, parents will certainly pay good money to put their kids in the best torture camp!
  - tsumnia 8y ago
    Slippery slope fallacy aside since that is advocating we go back to a time before child labor laws, yes. The hard work involved is my point. This doesn't have to be physical labor, see my error handling example in learning computer science. K-12 also refers to what I'm advocating as "productive struggle", and I'm not sure being an advertisement teaches this skill.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

Sorry, I disagree. I honestly find this whole business of not just marketing to relatively young children but paying them to be your marketing drones pretty disgusting. I mean, some of the kids in this story are 12 and 13. I find this commoditization of "friendship" distressing enough when adults do it, but with developing children I find it to be a gross abuse of power. As another poster said, perhaps the one good to come from this is that (hopefully) kids will get so turned off from the constant stream of bullshit that they will disconnect entirely.

tsumnia 8y ago
I apologize, I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Also, I agree, commoditization of friendship is not good and I do not support that. I was more referring to this as the modern-day hussle and that if people are going to choose Instagram'ing as their occupation, they aren't gaining necessary "grit" from other types of work

askafriend 8y ago

They're getting a crash course in branding, advertising, and media. It's a low level marketing role.

projektir 8y ago

> The only concern I have is the experience they are earning. In a "traditional" summer job (car wash, manual labor, cashier, etc.), you gained experience in something I'd call "grit" - harsh work conditions, people yelling at you, etc. This is a positive? O.o

tsumnia 8y ago
Check through my other responses; I don't view it as positive or negative, just necessary.