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Just think what could be accomplished if software engineers unionized. If all the SREs at amazon went on strike for 6 hours, the world would descent into chaos.

Just think what could be accomplished if software engineers unionized. If all the SREs at amazon went on strike for 6 hours, the world would descent into chaos. I really don't understand why that group of people don't want to leverage their power to change the world.

selimthegrim 8y ago
Did you actually type that with a straight face?
- baq 8y ago
  Why do you take HR for granted but somehow can't imagine an IT union?
  - selimthegrim 8y ago
    No, I meant the part about the world collapsing.
- dang 8y ago
  Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
lovich 8y ago
The other reply to this comment is why software engineers don't unionize. Many think they're better off without a union, but a large number go even further and are adamantly opposed to the existence of unions
dominotw 8y ago
they'd prbly be against h1b first.
jpttsn 8y ago
Sinking the world into chaos might not be palatable to enough people. If it were, would they be the kind of people you want changing the world?
- ionised 8y ago
  This sounds similar to the opinion that protesters should protest out of the way and not cause any disruptions.
  - jpttsn 8y ago
    Then let the record note I subscribe to no such opinion, lest readers over-infer ill will. Just saw a “why” and thought I’d contribute.
frockington 8y ago
I already pay enough in taxes, the idea of union fees on top of that is revolting
BeetleB 8y ago
>I really don't understand why that group of people don't want to leverage their power to change the world. Have you tried talking to such anti-union programmers/engineers? I've seen both good and bad unions, so I'm fairly neutral on the topic, but some things to ponder over: In a previous job, I would occasionally stay a little late to work on performance improvements (automating the workflow, improving tools, etc). I usually did it without management's permission - just on my own. They'd hear about it once I was ready to tell them. Some of my coworkers were against this, for a variety of reasons, including the fear that my work would raise the bar. I strongly suspect that if they were unionized, they'd find a way to make sure I don't do this type of work. Many SW folks do worry that unionizing will bring their productivity down to the median, and will make it harder for job growth. They don't want to be held back by a union. (I wasn't even doing this to get ahead of them (I was paid about the median, and some who opposed were a full grade level above me). I just got sick of crappy in-house tools.) Beyond that, there are the "usual" reasons: Unions can become quite political, and they can use as many dirty tactics/propaganda/misinformation with their own people as the company they work for can/does. Their conformity tactics can get nasty as well. My wife has a union job and the union is considering a strike. Plenty of attempts to silence/shame anti-strike voices from within the union. The paranoia within the union is quite high. Who amongst us is a spy for the employer? Stuff like that. Unions can really increase the drama at a work place. Again, I'm listing the negative examples. Not all unions are like this. I suspect, though, that unless the union actively guards against these, this will be the normal evolution of a union.

selimthegrim 8y ago

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

baq 8y ago
Why do you take HR for granted but somehow can't imagine an IT union?
- selimthegrim 8y ago
  No, I meant the part about the world collapsing.
dang 8y ago
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

lovich 8y ago

The other reply to this comment is why software engineers don't unionize. Many think they're better off without a union, but a large number go even further and are adamantly opposed to the existence of unions

dominotw 8y ago

they'd prbly be against h1b first.

jpttsn 8y ago

Sinking the world into chaos might not be palatable to enough people. If it were, would they be the kind of people you want changing the world?

ionised 8y ago
This sounds similar to the opinion that protesters should protest out of the way and not cause any disruptions.
- jpttsn 8y ago
  Then let the record note I subscribe to no such opinion, lest readers over-infer ill will. Just saw a “why” and thought I’d contribute.

frockington 8y ago

I already pay enough in taxes, the idea of union fees on top of that is revolting

BeetleB 8y ago

>I really don't understand why that group of people don't want to leverage their power to change the world. Have you tried talking to such anti-union programmers/engineers? I've seen both good and bad unions, so I'm fairly neutral on the topic, but some things to ponder over: In a previous job, I would occasionally stay a little late to work on performance improvements (automating the workflow, improving tools, etc). I usually did it without management's permission - just on my own. They'd hear about it once I was ready to tell them. Some of my coworkers were against this, for a variety of reasons, including the fear that my work would raise the bar. I strongly suspect that if they were unionized, they'd find a way to make sure I don't do this type of work. Many SW folks do worry that unionizing will bring their productivity down to the median, and will make it harder for job growth. They don't want to be held back by a union. (I wasn't even doing this to get ahead of them (I was paid about the median, and some who opposed were a full grade level above me). I just got sick of crappy in-house tools.) Beyond that, there are the "usual" reasons: Unions can become quite political, and they can use as many dirty tactics/propaganda/misinformation with their own people as the company they work for can/does. Their conformity tactics can get nasty as well. My wife has a union job and the union is considering a strike. Plenty of attempts to silence/shame anti-strike voices from within the union. The paranoia within the union is quite high. Who amongst us is a spy for the employer? Stuff like that. Unions can really increase the drama at a work place. Again, I'm listing the negative examples. Not all unions are like this. I suspect, though, that unless the union actively guards against these, this will be the normal evolution of a union.