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In the near future, Firefox will — by default — protect users by blocking tracking while also offering a clear set of controls to give our users more choice

In the near future, Firefox will — by default — protect users by blocking tracking while also offering a clear set of controls to give our users more choice over what information they share with sites. Sounds promising. However, having Google as the default search engine is a good enough reason to discourage one from using Firefox. Wonder if it would ever change.

Kaveren 8y ago
I don't think so. The vast majority of people outside of China use Google as their search engine, and would want to continue to do so. It'd be bad UX to force them away from this. Within a few seconds I can easily adjust my search engine preferences in the options menu, and DuckDuckGo is listed as one of the default options.
kibwen 8y ago
> having Google as the default search engine is a good enough reason to discourage one from using Mozilla Hm? The only browser that doesn't ship Google as the default search engine is Edge (with apologies to Lynx users). Is the alternative to suggest that people not on Windows simply shouldn't browse the web? Changing the default takes only four clicks: search box -> change search settings -> default search engine -> select from dropdown menu.
bopbop 8y ago
Honest question - What is it you are considering as the alternative browser in this situation? The other big 3rd party (non-os supplied) browser is literally made by google.
TheRealPomax 8y ago
And what would you suggest as alternative, given that normal users (e.g. people who've never even heard of HN and make up the majority of browser users) expect to search with Google? As far as I recall, the Google search is part of the funding agreement (because Mozilla is still a non-profit, the money has to come from _somewhere_ and we, the users of the browser, sure aren't paying them?) with the explicit agreement that it is trivial to change the default search engine for people who don't want to search with Google. Click on the drop-down on the left of the search field in the browser, you click "change search settings", you pick your preferred search (options for which include "duck duck go" these days) and you're done forever. That... feels like a perfectly fine way to go about offering people what they want: make what the majority wants the default, and make it trivial to change for people with different wants or needs.
- ptr_void 8y ago
  What about no default ? Just Prompt user after installation which search engine they want to set as default. HN users will switch to something they prefer, normal users wouldn't know there exists anything other than google. By making what you think majority wants as default, you are forcing something on people who doesn't know any better.
  - tyleraldrich 8y ago
    Google pays Mozilla a bunch of money to be the default search engine, and Mozilla needs the money as they are a non-profit. If somebody cares about their online privacy, they can change the default search engine very easily - I think what we should be doing is teaching the average web browser what kind of tracking goes on so that more people are willing to switch to things like Firefox/DDG.
    - 0xmohit 8y ago
      So Mozilla should clearly state that being a non-profit they need funds and that they are willing to compromise the privacy of their users.
      - TheRealPomax 8y ago
        No need to lie just to make a point. Firefox does not "compromise the privacy of their users" by using google.com as default search engine. You're going to have write quite the detailed explanation if you want to make that case and make a credible claim at the same time.
- 0xmohit 8y ago
  > And what would you suggest as alternative https://duckduckgo.com/ https://duckduckgo.com/ -- The search engine that doesn't track you. > make what the majority wants the default No. That amounts to choosing the default for the majority and diverting majority to a particular search engine.
jtmarl1n 8y ago
A good enough reason to discourage using Firefox in favor of what exactly? Default search provider can be changed easily enough.
- 0xmohit 8y ago
  Brave [1] uses Duckduckgo [2] as the default search engine. [1] https://brave.com/ https://brave.com/ [2] https://duckduckgo.com/ https://duckduckgo.com/

Kaveren 8y ago

I don't think so. The vast majority of people outside of China use Google as their search engine, and would want to continue to do so. It'd be bad UX to force them away from this. Within a few seconds I can easily adjust my search engine preferences in the options menu, and DuckDuckGo is listed as one of the default options.

kibwen 8y ago

> having Google as the default search engine is a good enough reason to discourage one from using Mozilla Hm? The only browser that doesn't ship Google as the default search engine is Edge (with apologies to Lynx users). Is the alternative to suggest that people not on Windows simply shouldn't browse the web? Changing the default takes only four clicks: search box -> change search settings -> default search engine -> select from dropdown menu.

bopbop 8y ago

Honest question - What is it you are considering as the alternative browser in this situation? The other big 3rd party (non-os supplied) browser is literally made by google.

TheRealPomax 8y ago

And what would you suggest as alternative, given that normal users (e.g. people who've never even heard of HN and make up the majority of browser users) expect to search with Google? As far as I recall, the Google search is part of the funding agreement (because Mozilla is still a non-profit, the money has to come from _somewhere_ and we, the users of the browser, sure aren't paying them?) with the explicit agreement that it is trivial to change the default search engine for people who don't want to search with Google. Click on the drop-down on the left of the search field in the browser, you click "change search settings", you pick your preferred search (options for which include "duck duck go" these days) and you're done forever. That... feels like a perfectly fine way to go about offering people what they want: make what the majority wants the default, and make it trivial to change for people with different wants or needs.

ptr_void 8y ago
What about no default ? Just Prompt user after installation which search engine they want to set as default. HN users will switch to something they prefer, normal users wouldn't know there exists anything other than google. By making what you think majority wants as default, you are forcing something on people who doesn't know any better.
- tyleraldrich 8y ago
  Google pays Mozilla a bunch of money to be the default search engine, and Mozilla needs the money as they are a non-profit. If somebody cares about their online privacy, they can change the default search engine very easily - I think what we should be doing is teaching the average web browser what kind of tracking goes on so that more people are willing to switch to things like Firefox/DDG.
  - 0xmohit 8y ago
    So Mozilla should clearly state that being a non-profit they need funds and that they are willing to compromise the privacy of their users.
    - TheRealPomax 8y ago
      No need to lie just to make a point. Firefox does not "compromise the privacy of their users" by using google.com as default search engine. You're going to have write quite the detailed explanation if you want to make that case and make a credible claim at the same time.
0xmohit 8y ago
> And what would you suggest as alternative https://duckduckgo.com/ https://duckduckgo.com/ -- The search engine that doesn't track you. > make what the majority wants the default No. That amounts to choosing the default for the majority and diverting majority to a particular search engine.

jtmarl1n 8y ago

A good enough reason to discourage using Firefox in favor of what exactly? Default search provider can be changed easily enough.

0xmohit 8y ago
Brave [1] uses Duckduckgo [2] as the default search engine. [1] https://brave.com/ https://brave.com/ [2] https://duckduckgo.com/ https://duckduckgo.com/